Isabelle: I think it's always very good to get sort of an external perspective, or rather an internal perspective. It certainly looks like a lot more interesting environmentalism and climate policy is happening outside of the global north because these communities are on the front line. But when you can see the continuation of globalization and trade and growth, indeed, does call into question even those policies. She says we need to stop clinging to our old ideas about how things should be. And that in essence is a problem that we are still in the politics of polarization.

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