In Episode 35 of "Redefining Energy - Tech," host Michael Barnard engages with Michele Wucker, the author of *The Gray Rhino* and *You Are What You Risk*, in a thought-provoking discussion on risk perception and management. Wucker introduces the concept of the "gray rhino," which symbolizes obvious yet often overlooked risks, in contrast to the "black swan," which represents unforeseeable and improbable events.

The conversation highlights climate change as a prime example of a gray rhino, underscoring the importance of recognizing and responding to such evident threats before they escalate.   Wucker shares her background in emerging market debt and sovereign credit risk, providing context for how she developed the gray rhino concept. The discussion explores the historical and societal dimensions of risk perception, with Wucker emphasizing the need for greater awareness and proactive action regarding significant, visible risks like climate change. The episode also examines how human perception of time influences our responses to long-term threats, drawing parallels with the global reaction to the COVID-19 pandemic.

Further into the conversation, Wucker introduces ideas from her book *You Are What You Risk*, including the concepts of "risk fingerprint" and "risk empathy." She discusses how cultural differences, particularly between Eastern and Western societies, shape varying approaches to risk assessment and decision-making. The episode concludes by exploring the interconnectedness of personal, organizational, and governmental decisions in managing obvious risks, highlighting the collective responsibility in addressing gray rhino threats. This episode offers listeners valuable insights into how we can better identify and respond to the risks that are most apparent yet frequently ignored.