And what, I mean, what was it that allowed you to start to think like that? Was there something that you experienced or just kind of a practice or meditation or just, I don't know, I'm curious. Do

you remember? I think it was just taking that much time from not doing it. And then when I went back to letting the melodies come in and picking up the guitar again and just realizing how grateful I am when a song comes, how it makes me feel, like honestly how it makes me feel. All criticism aside, no more, you know, this isn't what kind of a song is this. And this is right, this is the batch of songs I wrote for Supernova, you see. So that was what came after that. And when I hear Supernova, I hear play. That's play.

And it's so different from everything you've done up until that point. It's so

different. And that's the inner, my inner child, that creativity, that honest child's creativity. Those are the kind of songs that I would reject, you see, because that's not visceral enough. That isn't whatever. There's something, oh, that's not what, you know, there's not enough pain in this. There's not enough, whatever. I wasn't doing it intentionally, but that's what that critical voice does. It's like something had to be visceral and painful about it, where it wasn't getting through. And that critical voice was hampering me. And after that, I feel I can just see it. And I remember my little sister calling me after that record came out and saying, this record sounds like the ray I know. This sounds like you. This is you, like my brother, you. You know, she could hear that. She could hear the playfulness in it, the real me, you know. Yeah. And I hear that when I listened to those songs. Of course, it wasn't really, I don't think it was, people didn't react well to it at all. But that actually helped in a weird way. Somehow, because I knew I was on the right track. I felt like, yeah, you're on the right track. I know, it's weird. It's almost like a mind game you play with yourself somehow to take something negative and then twist it around. Someone says, this is horrible. This doesn't sound like Ray. But I know the truth. Actually, this does sound like Ray. This sounds more like Ray than, you know, until Sun turns black, sounds like Ray. So it just gave me strength to then, you know, it was another hurdle. No one likes this. People were fighting at shows, yelling at each other. It was a mess. But I knew I was on the right track.

It's interesting. I mean, I can see how people would say this is not a Ray La Montaine album, Supernova, but at the same time, it's clear that you let go. And you allowed yourself to do to really push boundaries that would lead to your next record, which was, from what I've read, you were listening to like, talk, talk, Spirit of Eden, maybe laughing stock, incredible records, Just, you know, life, just can't imagine what Mark Hollis, how he did those records. It's just, it's almost like Brian Wilson making pet sounds. It's just so, I mean, everything I've read about those, those recordings, like they would bring in, you know, choirs of kids and then record for four days and then, you know,

it's a little crazy. It's a little crazy and a little bit claustrophobic. I feel a little claustrophobic when I hear them, but I also hear the genius in them. There's something... It's a very... Yeah. It's... But

it inspired you to create this kind of concept, I mean, in the subsequent record. I think it's... Is it pronounced Ouroboros? Yeah, Ouroboros, yeah. Which is a beautiful record. And that's, and people compare you to Pink Floyd, not just Van Morrison and Tim Buckley and Otis Redding. It's like, oh, and Pink Floyd. And I can hear that. Yeah,

I can too, for sure. It's, for me, it was more about, again, and I just have to stress this, I know that when I started writing for that record, whatever it was going to be, again, honestly, I had no idea. I wasn't trying for anything in any of my records, really. I'm not really trying. I'm just listening. And then I try to then learn the song that I'm hearing, really. So it seemed at first it seemed incoherent. I couldn't quite figure out. It was a very puzzling batch of melodies and tunes. And at some point, it became clear what it was. It just became clear that each song somehow was just leading into the next one, into the next one, into the next one. And when it became clear to me, I really had presented it as one song. It was just one 45-minute song in my mind. Anyway, I'm not trying to be genius or anything. That's what it felt like to me. It felt like it was just one long sort of song cycle, which I embraced. I thought, wow, this is really beautiful. And somehow it really works. One thing just flows into the next. It's the next so naturally. And it just feels like it's all one thing. And so when I was talking to Jim about collaborating on it, that's what I referenced was talk, talk. And it was just kind of a complete coincidence that he had just gotten a reissue, you know, like a 45 or something, a new pressing of that same batch of records, totally fluke. I had no idea, but he understood immediately. And so I sent him the demo and then he wrote back, just release the demo, it's awesome. I was like, no, there's something else in here, there's textures in here that we need to discover, we need to find. But that's an album that is a real high point for me. When I hear that, there's something about that, just such a gift from the creative, whatever energy, that creative energy, wherever that comes from. It's such a beautiful recording and I'm so proud of us for all working together so fluidly to get what was in my imagination into reality, you know?

I wanna ask you about your new record, Long Way Home, which is now out and it's a terrific record, Long Way Home in particular, just a beautiful song. Thank you. Which I guess, I mean, from what I gather, you, like many songwriters, you first start with the melody and then you begin to kind of piece together words to that melody. Is that more or less correct?

More or less. A lot of times for me, a lyric attaches itself to a melody to begin with. Not a full lyric, but something will attach itself to it, and that's where it all grows from there, some seed. But Long Way Home wasn't like that. Long way home wasn't like that. Long way home wasn't a melody that I had bouncing around or anything. I was in the midst of recording things and again just kind of in that zone where I felt connected. And I was just feeling a specific mood And that's where so damned blue came from, this little instrumental thing, which I recorded immediately as soon as it appeared. So it was very just fresh, recorded that. And as soon as I stopped recording it, I was still sitting there with the guitar, messing with it. And it immediately led to the beginning of Long Way Home. And that song happened in maybe an hour, I mean maybe an hour, start to finish the whole thing. And as soon as it was written, I recorded it immediately. So both of those pieces happened in the same night, and neither of them were planned in any way. I was just strumming the guitar because I was feeling just the way that song makes me feel. I was just feeling a little...just deep in it somehow. And just expressed exactly how I was feeling, those chords and that progression. to that song, which again, is just one of those moments where that song to me is just, regardless of how people think of it, in the writing of it, it's just such a gift. There's no plan. It just is a pita pia, and there it is. And you're like, who are you? Where did you come from? And then I see where it all comes from. It's this amalgamation of these childhood days that I had in Nebraska and in Tennessee, and walking home from school and filling up my pockets with pecan. That's because they're all over the road walking home from school. So I would fill my pockets up with them. you know, just those summer days when I was a kid, because like you, we're both the same age, so I think, or close to. So we were right on that edge where before, you know, cell phones and computers and connect. So lucky. So lucky.

So lucky.

And I am only now fully realizing that gift, how lucky I was to be just on the edge of that have that childhood where you could go to school, get your ass kicked, or beat someone else up, and, you know, battle through it. But then when you got home, you were done. You were disconnected. The rest of the day was yours. The weekend was yours. The summer was yours. And you could just lose yourself in this, in being a kid. You know, it doesn't last forever man. As you know, you become an adult and it all comes in and you know reality, you know, life is heavy. So what a gift that is, you know, to have had that that childhood where you could turn that stuff off. You weren't constantly connected. Kids today, I feel for them so much not being able to leave those pressures. It's constant. I can't even imagine how they do it. If I couldn't turn it off as a kid, I don't know if I could have made it. I mean, it's heavy with what kids have to deal with. So that's where it comes from. That's what that song is for me. It's just that gratefulness that I wasn't even really aware of until the song appeared. And then I'm like, oh my god, of course. That's what this is. mean would would you I mean

do you think it's? It's fair to say that elements of this record are kind of not just a reflection but kind of taking stock of where you are I'm sure life.

I mean, yeah. Yeah, there's a lot of that going on for sure in my in my myself these days I Mean like I wouldn't change a thing. It's very literal. Yeah. Right? Yeah. Some songs are not so oblique. Some are very straightforward and I love that. I always love it when a nice straightforward sentiment comes to me. I enjoy that kind of a song.

And you are producing your own music now, right? I mean, mainly you are independently recording

and producing it. Yeah, and it's much better for me. And even learning Pro Tools. Yeah, it's just crazy for me because I just can't stand computer time. But yeah, you know, it just works really well for me. I found that working with producers, as well intentioned as they are, it's just friction. It adds friction the creative process. And then you may work with someone who just is, you know, I don't really want to get into it because I feel like people will maybe take it the wrong way, they're being judgmental. producers have a lot of pride attached to their role. And then there's also a level of ego that's involved, which can be just off the charts. And it's just, for me, it's more about collaboration. I just want to collaborate with other musicians. I just want to get some guys in the room and say, man, I'm hearing this thing, but I can't figure out how to get it. It's the sound. And just be able to bounce ideas off people. It should be fun and fluid and easy and communication and not friction and butting heads. And you throw out an idea and someone says, that's not interesting enough for me. That's a very common phrase for producers to use. That's not interesting enough for me. And it just makes me live it. It just makes me live it. It's such a crazy statement. It's a statement coming from ego. When you're bouncing ideas off with friends and other musicians, no one says that in real life. This is some kind of construct of, I'm in a role that is more, I'm smarter and more creative than everyone in the room. And so you need my guidance or else you wouldn't be here. But that's just, it doesn't work with me. It's not copacetic. It leads me to just be getting, and then I get angry and things get weird and energy gets strange and then creativity is quelled and then it's this sort of arm wrestling match to just try to get what's in your imagination on

a record and it's crazy. How have you managed to do all this on your own terms? I mean, make the music that you want to make, make the records you want to make, but not really play the game. I mean, you don't, you know, there's almost no, I've never seen a picture of you like on a red carpet, for example. No, or, I mean, it's really, I mean, it's almost like you have content, not contempt's the right word, but maybe that is the right word, but you've just very consciously, deliberately managed to not do any of the things that seem like you

have to do to succeed. to take the repercussions of that. So if someone says, we've got the cover of this songwriting magazine, you gotta do a photo shoot next week. And you say, you know what? I don't wanna do a photo shoot. They make me uncomfortable. I have no control. They don't let me help choose a photo. I don't wanna do that. You're gonna miss a huge opportunity. This is a great opportunity. Well, you know, it's just a personal decision. It's like, okay, so I'm not going to get the press that I would have gotten. I get it. That's a good look, as they say, a good look. And I get it. I understand that's furthering your career possibly or giving you a better, you know, it gets the word out more. But I would say no to those things. I just did it recently, just like within the last two weeks. Because I don't like the fact that in order to do that, you have to play by their rules as if they're doing you a favor. See that irks me. So it brings out the scrapper in me. I've worked really hard to build my career really, really hard. Nothing's been given to me. I've had to earn every single thing. Now, when someone says we want to do this thing, blah, blah, blah, it's a photo shoot. And I say, well, if I can use a guy that I like, which is easy, very professional, this certain guy, I really like him, trust him, and we'll give you six exclusive photos. But he and I are going to take them and then we'll choose them and I'll give them to you. And if that's not reasonable, which it never is, they say, no, we need to own the photos, we choose, blah, blah, blah. And I say, well, that won't do it. And it's fine. But the thing, what I'm trying to say is, I'm willing to take the repercussions of that, which means I'm going to have to now work harder to get the word out. I get it. And I've done it my whole career. I have to work harder because I'm not going to the right places where you get your photo taken in social situations, Grammy parties, this and that, and everyone sees you and you're constantly, you know, in the mix. It just makes it harder for me, God, is what I'm trying to say. It just makes me have to work harder to try to get the word out, which basically means get the music into the world, get out there and play it and bring it to them and then try to bring people in to what you're doing. And that's, I hope that answers your question, but that's basically it. And that's just the way I've done it. If it makes me feel uncomfortable, or I feel like someone's manipulating me in some way, I just, I say no. And it's, I mean, it's, to some people, that sounds like not

a great trade-off, but clearly, you've been able to live the life you've wanted to live on your terms without, and there might be, quote unquote, opportunities that you don't have, but it sounds like they're not ones you want anyway. Well,

I don't, yeah, I wouldn't want to make...I wouldn't want to introduce chasing fame into my life. Yeah. I understand that some people feed off of that, and it works for them, because that's their...you know, that's what they want to do. They enjoy it. They enjoy that part of it. It's almost like this...their whole world revolves around that, but it works for them, and that's...I'm not being critical. It's just, you know, but it doesn't work for me. I don't want to spend my life trying to, as someone once told me, I need to get my face out there more. Someone told me once, I need to get my face out there more. And that being famous was about making other people want to be you. So fame is making other people, creating a perception that makes other people want to live your life, to think to be envious of your life. That's fame. And that's just gross to me. That's so gross. And again, please don't take me wrong. I'm not being critical of someone who just lives for that world, whatever, that's their game and that's their, maybe it's creative to them in some way, I don't know. But to me, it seems vacuous and gross and empty, and I don't wanna spend my life trying to be more famous. I'd rather be in the garage building a hot rod or playing with cars or something. I'd rather just be peaceful and content and happy and not, you know. And it also comes back to just some advice I got really early on from someone who said, other people's opinion of you is none of your business, which is brilliant. It's such a wonderful lesson. It's so simple, but it's so true. What other people think of me or what I do or my creativity or just me as a person, whatever. It's none of my business. People are so ready to take offense today. It's almost as if they want to. And I think that just that expression, take offense, you have to accept someone's offensive remark as if it was a toxic gift or something. You have to accept it to be offended by it. So why not simply just not accept that? You don't have to take offense at everything. People can say really mean things about you and you don't have to be offended by it. And the least, can just ignore it. It's not that hard. It's actually really, it actually becomes a habit and then it's really powerful, you know. Ray

LaMoutain, thank you.