18th-Century Travelers' Indifference

Russian propaganda claims that Ukraine is not a separate nation, but merely a “preliminary form” of Russia. Today’s Kremlin ideology seeks to annex Ukrainian history in order to justify its territorial aggression. But this myth has a birth certificate. It emerged in the 19th century, when the Russian Empire started inventing its “ancient” medieval roots. Before that, Russian travellers in Ukrainian lands showed little interest in such historical questions. In this episode, we trace the genealogy of the myth that Kyiv is a “Russian city” and that its history somehow belongs to Muscovy. *** Explaining Ukraine is a podcast by UkraineWorld, an English-language media platform about Ukraine, run by Internews Ukraine. Host: Volodymyr Yermolenko, a Ukrainian philosopher, editor-in-chief of UkraineWorld, and president of PEN Ukraine. Listen on various platforms: https://li.sten.to/explaining-ukraine UkraineWorld: https://ukraineworld.org/en *** Guest: Kateryna Dysa, a Ukrainian historian and Associate Professor at Kyiv-Mohyla Academy. She has been a visiting fellow at Harvard, Stanford, Paris, and Oxford, and a visiting professor at the University of Basel. Currently, she is researching how the image of Kyiv was constructed in travel literature from the late eighteenth to early twentieth centuries. *** SUPPORT: You can support our work on https://www.patreon.com/c/ukraineworld Your help is crucial, as we rely heavily on crowdfunding. You can also contribute to our volunteer missions to frontline areas in Ukraine, where we deliver aid to both soldiers and civilians. Donations are welcome via PayPal at: ukraine.resisting@gmail.com. *** CONTENTS: 00:00 Kateryna Dysa, a Ukrainian historian and associate professor at Kyiv-Mohyla Academy. 00:15 Where and when did the myth of Kyiv belonging to Moscow actually begin? 02:05 How did 18th-century Russian travelers initially view Kyiv, and why was their interest superficial? 04:05 How did the rise of history as a discipline change Russia's perception of Kyiv? 12:17 Why did the French philosopher Madame de Staël describe Kyiv as a "semi-Tatar" or nomadic place? 15:17 What were the two extreme ways Westerners described Kyiv? 21:04 When did the annexation of the past become an "aggressive policy" and a part of Russian imperial ideology? 35:03 Why were Russian travelers unwilling to communicate with locals, stressing that Ukrainians were "the other"? 38:07 Why did Russian travelers consistently feel "not at home" in a place the Empire claimed as its "cradle"? 39:16 What aspects of Kyiv's social and cultural history in the 19th century still remain "understudied"? *** This episode is made in partnership with Kyiv-Mohyla Academy and under the framework of the project “HER-UKR: Challenges and opportunities for EU heritage diplomacy in Ukraine”, co-funded by the EU within the ERASMUS+ Jean Monnet Policy Debate action.