Yeah, I think that one of the ways that shows up for me is if you're challenging people, sometimes the temptation is to then be a recluse or to pull back because you're feeling their attention. But I think great leaders stay engaged. They stay engaged relationally. I love Pat, what you said about continuing to be vulnerable with them and to stay connected to them while you're still challenging and pushing. Yeah.

And I just, I saw this video for the first time yesterday, people listening probably have seen it. It's on YouTube and everywhere else. And it's, you can put in the woman with the nail in her head. And it's this hilarious thing where this woman and her boyfriend or her husband are sitting on talking and she's telling him how sad she is and how hard things are and how her heads always impression that I mean, it's always pressure and she feels like people are looking at her and she feels, and he's like, yeah, it's because you have a nail in your head. And she's like, it's not about the nail. It's not about the nail. Just listen. I just need you to listen. And then he's like, oh, okay, it must be hard. And she goes on, all my sweaters are snagged. And he's like, well, that's because you have that. And it's not about the nail. And sometimes you just have to go, I know you don't want me to talk about the nail, but you need to get that nail out of your head and you need to reach up and pull it out. And in the meantime, they're going to be like, I can't believe you're not listening. Oh, oh, that feels much better now. So for the eight out of 10 times that we need to just listen, sometimes people really do just want us to help them. And we have to push them to pull the nail out of their head. And I just think it's a hilarious video. And it just rang so true for me. But when you're telling somebody, take the nail out of your head, oftentimes you're getting mad at you.

Pat, we haven't talked in two days, but I, after 10 years of marriage, I don't recommend this. I, during the middle of a fight, I thought that that showing that video to my wife, like bring comic relief to what we were fighting about, it did not do that. So I don't recommend doing that in the midst of a fight. Fantastic. That's so great. I can't believe it. I literally did that two nights ago. So,

so that video must be really popular right now. Everybody's talking about it. But anyway, getting back to the leadership thing, how do you be an unreasonable leader and survive it? You need to do two things, I think. First you have to purify your intent to Jeff to constantly say, is this about me? Is this about me? Is this about me? Nope, it's about them. It's about the organization. It's about that person. Then you have to prepare for the inevitable suffering that will go. And it might be five minutes. It might be five hours. It might be five days or five weeks. But you have to say, I know that I'm getting them to do something that's for their own good. I have to be prepared for the rejection that might come temporarily.

And I think, Pat, that so much of when we talk about leading, even the concept of leading, I love that you're talking about sort of this stretching and this uncomfortable arena that comes with that, which is because the idea of like, you're leading people to places or an organization to heights that they've not been before or to explore truths that they've not explored before. That means that the leader does go out first. It's sort of like if there's no tension there, we're all sort of huddled in the center of that comfortable circle rather than exploring the edges of that. So I love that the very concept of what you're bringing up is like, boy, if you're feeling like, hey, there's no times where I have to be unreasonable or that I'm making my people that my team feel that I'm unreasonable, you're probably playing it

too safe. Absolutely. And you're protecting yourself at the expense of their growth.

So,

you know, it's my turn to do the unpaid advertisement.