Multiple Selves Without a Central Self | Jordan Gruber ~ ATTMind 168
Adventures Through The Mind
Your Symphony of Selves - Jordan Gruber and James Fatiman
Jordan Gruber and James Fatiman talk about the idea of multiple selves in their new book, "Decomposing the Shadow" They say it's hard for people to accept that they don't have a single self or achieve one. But if you get rid of epicycles like there is no sun at its center, then Occam's razor can be used as an explanation on many different subjects.
Jordan Gruber is one of the authors of "Your Symphony Of Selves" and joins us to discuss how we all have multiple selves, not a single self.
Some of the topics we explore in this episode include an in-depth look at The Health Selves Model in comparison and contrast to The Single Self Assumption; why we mistakenly assume multiple selves to be pathological; how mental health is being in the right mind (self/selves) as the right time; and how we can start applying the healthy selves model into our lives today.
We also talk about Monotheism’s influence on the single self assumption—“the single god assumption”; how Buddishm’s noself and interdependence relates to multiple selves; the difference between multiple selves and Jungian archetypes/autonomous complexes; how Sigmund Freud helped The Single Self Assumption dominate the western mind; and how the very origins of Freud’s model of the mind might be in the gaslighting of sexual abuse.
Furthermore, we also explore psychedelic journeying and healing from a healthy selves model; how we might understand the effects of psychedelics on the ego, if there is no such thing as an ego; as well as all of reality being fractal iterations of various wholistic expressions of cosmic multiplicity while debating the validity of The Essential Self, Self Energy, and our ability to live in relationship to “Ultimate Reality”. And, of course, more. Enjoy.
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For links to Jordan's work, full show notes, and a link to watch this episode in video, head to bit.ly/ATTMind168
*** FULL TOPICS BREAKDOWN BELOW**
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Episode Breakdown
- (0:00) Opening
- (1:53) Overture
- (6:42) Patron Thanks | support the show!
- (8:03) Interview begins | James’ thoughts on Your Symphony Of Selves book
- (10:09) Why multiple selves can be very confronting
- (12:07) How we came to see multiple selves as being pathological | and why multiplicity is normal
- (17:40) Switching into younger/healthier selves in our aging, dying time, or Alzheimer's disease
- (23:43) How Sigmund Freud helped The Single Self Assumption dominate the western mind
- (26:31) The origins of Freud’s model of the mind might have be in the gaslighting of sexual abuse
- (32:37) Jung: the difference between multiple selves and archetypes/autonomous complexes
- (37:15) Monotheism’s influence on the single self assumption; “the single god assumption”?
- (43:23) How Buddishm’s noself and interdependence relates to multiple selves
- (49:51) Can a noself identity be a defensive compensation?
- (58:07) Centering our selves, without a central self
- (1:04:12) What about “I”?
- (1:09:49) Debating the validity of The Essential Self, Self Energy, and our ability to live in relationship to “Ultimate Reality”
- (1:19:06) Spiritual bypassing by evading the realities of relational life
- (1:27:02) All of reality is fractal iterations of various wholistic expressions of cosmic multiplicity
- (1:30:26) Psychedelic journeying and healing from a healthy selves model
- (1:39:31) Developing your “psychedelic journey self” | Interviews with Christopher Bache
- (1:41:38) Never do a psychedelic journey unless all selves are on board
- (1:43:02) Considering the effects of psychedelics on the ego, if there is no such thing as an ego
- (1:50:33) Why we need to give up on having big definite theories
- (1:56:10) Don’t force selves into integration or try to get rid of selves
- (1:59:24) The Single Soul Assumption?
- (2:03:04) How to start applying healthy selves model into your life today
- (2:10:11) Follow-up links and contact info
- (2:12:51) Outro
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SUPPORT THE PODCAST
- Patreon: https://patreon.com/jameswjesso
- Paypal Donation: https://www.paypal.com/biz/fund?id=383635S3BKJVS
- Merchandise: https://www.jameswjesso.com/shop/
- More Options: https://www.jameswjesso.com/support
- Newsletter: https://www.jameswjesso.com/newsletter
- Telgram Channel: https://t.me/jameswjesso
OR you can buy a copy of one of my books!
- Decomposing The Shadow: Lessons From The Psilocybin Mushroom – https://www.jameswjesso.com/decomposing-the-shadow/
- The True Light Of Darkness — https://www.jameswjesso.com/true-light-darkness/
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