The Ends Always Justifies the Means

In Ukraine, controversial cluster bombs have just arrived from the US. Ukraine’s military commanders say they will give them the advantage over Russia on the battlefield, but critics say cluster munitions have also killed countless civilians in the past. Meanwhile, on the diplomatic front, US Secretary of Defense Lloyd Austin says he has “no doubt” Ukraine will become part of NATO – but only after the war ends. President Zelensky’s chief diplomatic adviser Igor Zhovkva joins from Kyiv to discuss. 

Also on today's show: The director and producer of HBO's new four-part documentary "The Last Call"; IPCC Chairman Dr. Hoesung Lee 

To learn more about how CNN protects listener privacy, visit cnn.com/privacy

Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices