BuzzFeed has always been a company that plays with the boundaries of media, technology, and internet culture. From its early days mastering viral content to its ill-fated attempt to build a sustainable news division, the company has been in a constant state of reinvention. Now, CEO Jonah Peretti is making perhaps his boldest move yet: transforming BuzzFeed into something more than just a publisher—into a social network.

In Jonah's telling, this move springs from a frustration with the direction of social media, as platforms have turned to adversarial algorithms that addict users and prey on human weaknesses. It's a different social media than the heady days of 2012-2015, when BuzzFeed mastered the art and science of creating shareable content. Jonah and I discuss the media landscape and why it's not too late to come up with an alternative social network built around joy.