Paul pullman, who was ceo of unliger for many years, i think, did that admirable job. I think dan shoman is doing pretty good work at pay pal in some ways. He has this financial wellness programme for his employees. But critically, he cut their health car costs by something like 60%. It cost pepa a little money, but it's nothing. And guess what? K p i gores went up. Net promoter scores were happier. There's loyalty and consumers are happier.