i've been thinking about this over, what is ly now, maybe 25 years, my observation is that this need to be deeply heard, deeply seen. It's like i now think, it is not rarely met, it is almost literally never met. So much in that story, i want to first go back to something that you said early on. You said, it's rare that it's ever experienced. And i could sense, even in that small phrase, your life of experience with this. But i wonder if you could speak to that. Which is it? Is it? Is there such a thing as 'never?'

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