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6min chapter
021: Deconstructing Deconstruction: Finding an Invisible Jesus
Broken to Beloved Podcast
Navigating Faith Deconstruction
This chapter delves into the challenges of faith deconstruction, focusing on the emotional complexities faced by couples with differing beliefs. It underscores the need for open communication and community support as partners navigate their faith journeys amidst institutional discontent.
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Speaker 3
I love that. And you know, like, what do you do with your, with the child who is individuating? Yeah. You, you ask them, you let them and you walk with them. You explore with them. You go, you let them ask every question and you love them through the whole thing so that they know they are always safe and they can go over here and you still love them. And they can look at this and you still love them so that when they feel unloved one day, after they've exhausted, even if they walk away, they're going to know that you're there and that you love them and you found joy and you've cultivated all the things in your life that they want that brings them back. You just have to create that space. You can't use power over people that way. And the same thing we do for children is the same thing that pastors should be doing for
Speaker 1
people in their church. Yeah, absolutely. Well, you guys write about Michael Gungor and his experience with deconstruction and all the fallout that followed. Now we're hearing more stories about his dad and everything there. But I really appreciate what you said there. It's like seeing what happened to Gungor didn't put the fear of God in us. It put fear of the institution in us. And it had become apparent that those in spiritual authority over us could no longer be considered safe. And what a wake up call for pastors and church leaders and just people who claim to follow Jesus. Like if you can't be a safe place for people to come to with their questions, then what are we doing? I have a million more questions for you, but I want to honor the people who sent questions and ask you some of those if that's okay. And I'm trying to group them together for ones that may be similar. All right, here's one. And I'm not quite sure how to read it, but talking about a lot of deconstructors leaving their current church context, finding other ones, other ones leaving church altogether. And then he starts quoting John 13 and saying, Jesus commands, not suggests, that if we love one another and that we are to love one another, but what if there is no one another in your life? How can one truthfully say that they're still trying to follow Jesus as Lord? I get that people are messy and faith communities are hard. I know it's not an easy answer, but I'm having a super hard time reconciling. I want to follow Jesus better and, but not with all these messy people. How would you respond to that? Well,
Speaker 2
this is, I think, is going to be the most common question we get asked. We're not advocating that people leave the church entirely. We are talking about people who are leaving their churches to find largely another church, another fellowship. But that might not look like the First Baptist Church on the corner. It might look like a coffee shop, and it might look like a living room. And it might look a while like some walks in the woods with their best friend. in the book, where they're in a process of eliminating, but they haven't yet begun to reconstruct that much so that they feel a liberation now about what they believe. That's a big concern for us. And so, you know, the title is Provocative, a book about leaving the church and looking for Christ. And of course, that's what blew up sometimes. One of our tweets, you know, we did, I didn't tweet any of them the zonderman had access to my whatever it's called x well i've got like over 50 or 60 000 impressions and it was it was that sort of thing and they were all saying well how can you leave the church and still follow christ the church is the body of christ yeah oh as if we don't know that yeah people are just being reactive what constitutes the body of christ does it constitute the church that they were in? Or is the body of Christ maybe a little bit more amorphous? Yeah. And what they're discovering is fellowship with other Christians at a very limited level. Tommy can talk about this probably better than I can, but he knows what this is about as a pastor. This guy is a pastor of a church.
Speaker 1
Well, and let's bring it down to a much more pastoral, intimate level, because this question I feel like carries a lot of heartbreak to it. What kinds of conversations do married couples have when one partner is deconstructing and the other one is very content with traditional teachings? And are there marriages that continue to thrive if one partner remains and another partner exits? How would you respond to that, Tommy? So,
Speaker 3
I mean, most people who have deconstructed talk about a time when they, even Gungor, like when they were working through some stuff and losing their faith and their spouse was not. And for a while, there was the question about, do I say something? Do I talk to them? Because also, again, it hurts and I don't want my wife to hurt. We went through this as well. I deconstructed first. Scott says he did too. We're reading, we're thinking, and these questions, eventually, you talk to your spouse about it. And eventually, sort of, oftentimes, I've never seen it not happen, where somebody just ends up eventually coming with you. going to be honest. I don't know of any particular couples, and I've passed through a lot of couples in deconstruction. I don't know any that went through it and came out the other side and deconstructed Christian while the other one stayed a traditional fundamentalist. I've just not seen that happen even once. Not that it doesn't happen, but what I'm saying is you need to create that space, first off, to talk, to be known. Your marriage has to be a place where you can work through this. But also know it's going to be hard as well because they may not be ready to receive what you're having. So you've got to walk gently. It's just honestly grace all around. I don't think there's an answer I can give that would be like, here's what you do. It's going to take some wisdom and it's going to take a lot of grace, you for them, them for you. Because it's a really dark time because you are afraid on the other end that it will cost you a marriage. And I have seen deconstruction cost people marriages for sure. So I wish I had a really good answer for you. But honestly, if you have a good church, there should be people walking with you both through this.
Speaker 2
And also, it should reflect the sorts of disagreements that you have as a married couple anyway. I mean, some of these are a little bit more ultimate questions. So someone may think you're losing your salvation and panic and start locking down. But I think Tommy's right. Grace, wisdom, gentleness, doing it together, talking with one another, not blowing up about it.
Speaker 1
Yeah, I appreciate that. Scott, Tommy, thank you so much for your time. Where can people find or connect with you? Well,
Speaker 2
I have a substack, Scott McKnight with one T in Scott, and I have an X, and I have an Instagram, and I have a Threads. I mean, so I'm on social media, but they can find me at where I teach. I teach at Houston Theological Seminary, and you can probably find my address there, my email there. All
Speaker 1
righty. Tommy, where can people find you?
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