I love to quote that you used in the book from james baldwin, which is, we've got to be as clear headed about human beings as possible. We have these enormous challenges on this warming planet. How do you see the rethinking of race as being part of getting to the solution? And how hopeful are you? So, race was invented in order to prevent certain solidarities emerging, so people would be easier to exploit and less able to build mass movements of resistance. Sometimes it's easier to be seduced by forms of separatism. I'm readly excited, actually, by like a kind of current wave of, like, black riding i’m seeing

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