Tatiana: I'm 52, and i've definitely noticed that in the last decade or so, my ability to sort of live in the space where, you know, in joseph campbell's abyss. And it's a gift to other people, especially if we're parents, and now i'm a grandparent, to allow other people room to do what they have to do to grow. Cali: How can we get men to come here on their own? We had like, coach fill jackson teach the men a aske all; we'd have classes in survivalism in the woods,. O, well, not even that, just doed things.

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