Building Incentives: MeshTastic + Cardano Use Case

In this episode of the Crazy Wisdom Podcast, host Stewart Alsop sits down with Mike Bakon to explore the fascinating intersection of hardware hacking, blockchain technology, and decentralized systems. Their conversation spans from Mike's childhood fascination with taking apart electronics in 1980s Poland to his current work with ESP32 microcontrollers, LoRa mesh networks, and Cardano blockchain development. They discuss the technical differences between UTXO and account-based blockchains, the challenges of true decentralization versus hybrid systems, and how AI tools are changing the development landscape. Mike shares his vision for incentivizing mesh networks through blockchain technology and explains why he believes mass adoption of decentralized systems will come through abstraction rather than technical education. The discussion also touches on the potential for creating new internet infrastructure using ad hoc mesh networks and the importance of maintaining truly decentralized, permissionless systems in an increasingly surveilled world. You can find Mike in Twitter as @anothervariable.

Check out this GPT we trained on the conversation

Timestamps

00:00 Introduction to Hardware and Early Experiences

02:59 The Evolution of AI in Hardware Development

05:56 Decentralization and Blockchain Technology

09:02 Understanding UTXO vs Account-Based Blockchains

11:59 Smart Contracts and Their Functionality

14:58 The Importance of Decentralization in Blockchain

17:59 The Process of Data Verification in Blockchain

20:48 The Future of Blockchain and Its Applications

34:38 Decentralization and Trustless Systems

37:42 Mainstream Adoption of Blockchain

39:58 The Role of Currency in Blockchain

43:27 Interoperability vs Bridging in Blockchain

47:27 Exploring Mesh Networks and LoRa Technology

01:00:25 The Future of AI and Decentralization

Key Insights

1. Hardware curiosity drives innovation from childhood - Mike's journey into hardware began as a child in 1980s Poland, where he would disassemble toys like battery-powered cars to understand how they worked. This natural curiosity about taking things apart and understanding their inner workings laid the foundation for his later expertise in microcontrollers like the ESP32 and his deep understanding of both hardware and software integration.

2. AI as a research companion, not a replacement for coding - Mike uses AI and LLMs primarily as research tools and coding companions rather than letting them write entire applications. He finds them invaluable for getting quick answers to coding problems, analyzing Git repositories, and avoiding the need to search through Stack Overflow, but maintains anxiety when AI writes whole functions, preferring to understand and write his own code.

3. Blockchain decentralization requires trustless consensus verification - The fundamental difference between blockchain databases and traditional databases lies in the consensus process that data must go through before being recorded. Unlike centralized systems where one entity controls data validation, blockchains require hundreds of nodes to verify each block through trustless consensus mechanisms, ensuring data integrity without relying on any single authority.

4. UTXO vs account-based blockchains have fundamentally different architectures - Cardano uses an extended UTXO model (like Bitcoin but with smart contracts) where transactions consume existing UTXOs and create new ones, keeping the ledger lean. Ethereum uses account-based ledgers that store persistent state, leading to much larger data requirements over time and making it increasingly difficult for individuals to sync and maintain full nodes independently.

5. True interoperability differs fundamentally from bridging - Real blockchain interoperability means being able to send assets directly between different blockchains (like sending ADA to a Bitcoin wallet) without intermediaries. This is possible between UTXO-based chains like Cardano and Bitcoin. Bridges, in contrast, require centralized entities to listen for transactions on one chain and trigger corresponding actions on another, introducing centralization risks.

6. Mesh networks need economic incentives for sustainable infrastructure - While technologies like LoRa and Meshtastic enable impressive decentralized communication networks, the challenge lies in incentivizing people to maintain the hardware infrastructure. Mike sees potential in combining blockchain-based rewards (like earning ADA for running mesh network nodes) with existing decentralized communication protocols to create self-sustaining networks.

7. Mass adoption comes through abstraction, not education - Rather than trying to educate everyone about blockchain technology, mass adoption will happen when developers can build applications on decentralized infrastructure that users interact with seamlessly, without needing to understand the underlying blockchain mechanics. Users should be able to benefit from decentralization through well-designed interfaces that abstract away the complexity of wallets, addresses, and consensus mechanisms.