In the Tibetan world, it's true that there's a lot of debate that happens. You'll see monks in courtyards debating each other where they have all these sort of scripted moves and they're actually like, it almost looks like they're dancing. And one person says something and then they clap and stamp and the other person responds. So for example, I don't remember what the opening lines are in that particular section, but there's a formula to how they speak to each other. There's also the idea of jars. There's a way in which when they talk about material things, they'll talk about a jar or a vessel. With respect to the argument that he

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