Debating Ideologies in 'Starship Troopers'

Malcolm Collins: [00:00:00] For leftists who are in the comments and want to argue against us, I'd really like you to describe within the context of the world one.

Genuinely negative or genuinely fascistic thing about the governing structure of the Star Trek movie world and I'm not even burdening you with the books in the movie as portrayed in the movie. What is evil about it? They have gender equality. They have ethnic equality. Anyone can vote. All they ask is that you undergo some sacrifice and you could say like, well, they talk about the failure of democracy.

Well, I'm sorry. Just as a passionate observer here. I would argue that most leftists would also argue democracy has failed. I want you to explain to me what's actually evil about this system. Not just the outfits, what's actually wrong with it? That people have pride in their country, and in their case, their country is humanity, because that's what it represents, because it is a one world government.

Do people have pride in humanity? Is that what makes it [00:01:00] evil? Like, is it that you need the government to actively undermine humanity? To actively be promoting things about how bad humans are all the time?

Because you grew up with that and you think that that's what a sane, normal government does? Because that's what your government's been doing since you started the school system trying to indoctrinate you into hating your own country? Into hating your own people? You define that as good? It's disgusting.

In the far left was telling the truth and gender and ethnic equality was what they were really fighting for. The Starship troopers universe would be a utopia to them. They show in their hatred of it, that they were never telling the truth, that what they really want It's not a world of equality, but a world where people like them no longer need to make sacrifices to get things in life. Or to exercise power over others.

 Would you like to know more?

Malcolm Collins: Hello, Simone. So every one of our episodes starts with a little sound clip from one of our favorite movies, Starship Troopers. And it's a [00:02:00] really fascinating movie, especially in terms of how they've being talked about in the, in, in the public discourse today, because people are pointing out that it was made to lampoon.

And yet the leftists see it as being taken as like the the guard, like the, the honor guard, people like us, who they would consider fascists or something like that actually seeing a lot of great lessons from it, seeing a lot of great great ideas in it and they're like, look at how dumb they are believing that there are great ideas in a movie that was made to ridicule those ideas.

And this to me is a great instance of the left telling on itself because I think that Starship Troopers as a movie, and we're going to go into this, is one of the best condemnation of a leftist ideology I have ever seen. In that they thought that they were creating a movie that lampooned the ideas that were being brought up in it.

It really reminds me of a video we did on the Barbie [00:03:00] movie being one of the most anti woke movies I've ever seen. With examples in this being that when Ken comes to the human world, he keeps looking for patriarchy and can't find it. Like he finds women doctors, everything like that. The only place he's able to find evidence of a patriarchy is in a high school.

Library, not even a public library, what we are teaching our children is the only place the patriarchy exists. And then he enforces that within his world and we go into a bunch of other stuff, but I'm just saying, like, it is so obvious. There is almost no way to honestly watch the Barbie movie and take away anything but an incredibly base message.

I don't know, people

Simone Collins: take away what they want to take

Malcolm Collins: away. Well, no, but I, I mean, honestly, watch it, honestly, watch the way it's engaging with themes and the messages that is putting it across. And I think that this is the true with the Starship Troopers movie as well. So you have this guy Vanderhoeven, who, who started reading the book Starship Troopers, which is a great book.

[00:04:00] It's one of the considered like one of the best books in history for people who don't know. It's, it's one of, I think the only sci fi book allowed to be read within a U. S. military for a while. And it's on alternate governance. It's more of a book on governance philosophy, which you know we're nerds about because we wrote a book on governance philosophy.

But he started reading it and he didn't like it. He didn't like the ideas put across in it and he saw them as fascist in his mindset. And so when he was tasked with writing a movie about it, he wanted to lampoon these ideas. The problem was, is he also honestly conveyed them well enough that there is actually nothing evil.

About the government system that he portrays in this world. I mean, keep in mind, this is an elected government system. Anyone in the Starship Troopers universe can earn the right to vote. All you need to do is either engage in government service through You know, some sort of government activity or join the military.

There's, there's two [00:05:00] pathways. This is made clear in the book and they don't specifically change this in the movie. They don't say that there's not the other pathway. So we assume that it still happens because it follows broadly the same beats of the book. And if you're like disabled or mentally disabled, they find a way to allow you to still earn your vote.

You just have to earn it. Which is very different from a fascist state. No,

Simone Collins: and not just vote, like also the right to have kids,

Malcolm Collins: et cetera. Well, it gets easier. They say, they say you can still get the right to have kids if you're not a citizen, but you have to earn it. And then, so the, the point here being is that it is a government that asks things.

Of its citizens. And this is seen as holistically evil to the far left. So evil that they thought that's all they needed to do. To have that, and then the aesthetics of what they see as fascism, i. e. like long black coats. And now the government system being depicted in the movie is evil. Even though it's diverse, it's competent, it's [00:06:00] meritocratic they appear to have a free press system.

You see people disagreeing with government tactics within the, the state media. You see, Freedom of movement. So, a really interesting thing is, is leftists, when they watch this, they're like, humanity started the war. Do you remember how the war was started, Simone, by the way? Because it's conveyed in both the movie and the books.

Space Mormons. Space Mormons. But what did they do?

Simone Collins: They settled in a place that was Kind of off limits that they should yes, they

Malcolm Collins: disagree But the government was so not fascist not like evil military fascists that they were able to do this They were able to have ideas that went against the world government's ideas and act on those ideas.

The war was started because The world was a world in which freedom of speech, freedom of movement, and freedom of religion were allowed. That's why the war was started, and the buds having this ultra communist mindset couldn't understand [00:07:00] that this one faction of humanity was acting in a way that the rest of humanity didn't condone them.

And, and I, I've loved in leftist because the great thing about seeing leftist defendants is, is they're defending insects over humans saying that these insects are in the right and humans are in the wrong and they'll do things like one video I saw, which was insane is said that the the flood, the attack on Buenos Aires was a false flag attack.

So if you understand what that means, they were arguing that basically it was a fascist government. It could only stay and maintain power if they had an enemy to fight. So they attacked themselves to blame it on the insects. Except we can see in the movie that very clearly isn't the case. Do you remember the scene that proves that that's not the case?

Simone Collins: No, actually I don't.

Malcolm Collins: Remind me. So, the big spaceship carrier that the girl is, is, is flying in the part of the plot, you know, the, the people spit up and it's this big spaceship carrier [00:08:00] flying very, very far from earth. In fact, it's so far it's out of contact range. Once it's satellite is knocked off with the other human colonies gets hit by the asteroid on its way to earth.

It scrapes the top. Remember they have to do the last minute maneuver, but this meant that the asteroid was coming from outside of our system. So it definitely wasn't sent by the U. S. government. And Then people are like, well, then it must have come from too far away or something like that. Well, you don't know that the bugs didn't have, you know, more close sort of warning systems to attack humanity.

And maybe even were preparing for more of an assault because they saw the threat and the, the Mormon settlement triggered that. Nothing in the movie is at all evidence that there was any sort of disingenuousness on part of humanity. Simone, do you want your thoughts before I go further with this? No, no, no, go ahead.

Another part that I found absolutely hilarious. So, Vanderhoven, the guy who directed this, when he was choosing casting for the movie, he wanted it to be very sort [00:09:00] of obvious that it was supposed to be an evil government and evil people.

And so the way that he demonstrated this. was by choosing beautiful actors, beautiful fit actors. He thought it would be obvious, like a, a Nazi propaganda film if he chose beautiful actors. And I love the distortion of the leftist mindset this shows. And I'm like, it shows how leftists tell on themselves.

If he thought by choosing, like, like that he equi Equivocates human beauty with Equivocates. Equivocates human beauty with evil. That he sees beautiful people and he goes, Oh, that's obviously evil. He sees a government structure in which, unlike Wish, you know, like Disney saying, Oh, if a person demands one sacrifice from somebody on the behalf of the greater good of society, that that means he's evil.

That, that means that an individual is evil. If the smallest amount is asked from anyone, then that is evil. And, and, and to, to sort of worship this. [00:10:00] Constant indulgence. This, this ugliness of humanity is so telling of the way that White Left actually thinks but created this movie that's just fun and gets across a lot of interesting ideas. Well, one of the things I wanted to do here was read some of like the quotes I've seen online about this, because it will give you an idea of just how like crazy people are about this. So, a person says, I rewatched the classroom scene in Starship Troopers, and the teacher literally talks about how democracy was a failed experiment. And force slash violence is the ultimate means of power. Emphasis on force and direct action is one of the features of fascism.

I swear, people simping for the government just shows how effective the film operates as a piece of fascist propaganda. And I get it. Fascism does a great job of appealing to values like strength, duty, patriotism, et cetera. Do people really think fascists saw themselves as evil? Obviously, there are reasons people get behind these movements.

 I want to go to the reply because I [00:11:00] think it's, it's hilarious because it's so true. Yes. All power can be reduced to an expression of force.

Acknowledging this is just accepting truth. Crowdsourcing the application of violence to a government via quote unquote democracy does not dilute this fact.

So people who are unfamiliar with governance theory may not know this. But it is broadly accepted within governance theory that even democracies. The state has a monopoly on violence. The state can commit violence without any real repercussions. So long as it is within the rules that the state decides.

I E. The state can murder someone. For example, the state can come into your home and steal stuff from you. The state can even demand you just give it stuff. And so when you are exercising control of how the state exerts its monopoly on violent, I E voting, you are committing a form of violence. Within this interpretation of of state crap.

And this is like, Normal democratic thinking. This person is [00:12:00] just unfamiliar. That the person who wrote the initial things saying that.

The state having monopoly on violence is purely a fascist way of relating to government is just a profoundly uneducated person.

Malcolm Collins: The difference lies in the field of civic virtue. A citizen accepts personal responsibility for the safety of the body politic of which he is a member, defending it if need be with his life.

The civilian does not. They're quoting the movie there. You are not acting in violence on part of one, but on the whole. And then, quote, Whether it's exerted by ten or ten billion, political authority is violence to a degree. The people we call citizens have earned the right to wield it. And then the person goes on to say, And you wield it by voting.

And this is well known in government theory. Voting is a form of violence, right? I mean, it's a quote here, quote, when you vote, you are exercising political authority. You're using force and force. My friends is violence. The Supreme authority from which all authority derives. This is a quote from the movie in quote, and you can [00:13:00] only vote when you commit yourself to service to the Federation.

 I think another really interesting point that somebody makes here is, then how is it that even in the movie, Johnny Rico's parents are fantastically wealthy while being proudly non citizens.

If this were a fascist system, then they wouldn't have had the right to speak negatively about the government, nor would they have been allowed to become so wealthy. Fascism is literally the marriage of industry and state where nothing is outside the state and everything is for the state.

The real issue here is so many people refuse to accept the definition of fascism that was created by fascism's inventor Benito Mussolini, even so called experts refuse the true definition of words. Mussolini said many times that criticizing the government under fascism is treaty, and nobody has the right to vote for or against anything.

Yet even in the movie, they often talked about voting and criticizing the government and its reporting, none of which would have been allowed under fascism. So what's interesting here is this is similar to leftist ideas [00:14:00] about racism, where they Define racism as anything other than a leftist interpretation of race.

You know, I'll often point out, I'm like, well, I don't look down on black people. I have lots of black friends. And they're like, well, that's not, that's not not being a racist. You can still be racist and have those things. And I'm like, no, what you really just mean is you have defined racism as left wing ideology.

They have defined fascism as anything that looks aesthetically right leaning to them. And because of that, they cannot see. The world of Starship Troopers is actually probably one of the best worlds in terms of like quality of life, actual freedom of any of the, the star worlds I'm familiar with.

It's certainly better than life under the Star Wars universe or any of the, even like the good Republic had, you know, slavery happening around it and stuff like that. It was not like a great, they had enormous poverty. It had, you know, all sorts of problems, [00:15:00] even you know, people are like, well, what about the post scarcity of the Federation?

Right. I'm like, okay, the world that you are introduced to on the Federation. Is mostly the world of military starships. It's a world where the the force of science in that world like all scientists have effectively been militarized And serve on military starships and are basically completely brainwashed into the government's way of thinking Yeah, it's post scarcity on the starships of what is At least from what I can tell, basically an actual fascist government.

Because you're like, well, how do you know it's fascist? You know, they have voting on, on earth and stuff like that. I don't really see anyone ever disagreeing with the government. They may have voting, but it seems to me like they're, maybe they're using an AI lattice to prevent real dissent or something.

But yeah, it, it is a much more fascist coded world. So especially in the way that it, it, yeah. Anyway, I want you to talk a [00:16:00] bit to this stuff.

Simone Collins: Well, you're not really talking about aspects of the movie that like, I,

Malcolm Collins: well, what do you do in the movie? Then what

Simone Collins: appeals to me in the movie is how based it is.

And, and how realistic it is in some ways too. Like, I, I find a lot of what makes me excited about. Starship troopers in that general universe is how much it reminds me of the 1950s cornet films tutorials that I'm so obsessed with and that it's like extremely practical like people are not delusional about what they can achieve.

People are very practical about what they are allowed to access or not. There isn't a lot of entitlement in the world. It's more like, oh, I want to take this path and I'm able to take this path and that's what I'm going to do and I'm going to be proud of it. Which I really

Malcolm Collins: like. I really like the sort of practicality of it in ways, like, what would leftists find so hateful about the movie?

Like, another thing they'd probably really hate is the scene where all of their [00:17:00] scores are shown against each other. So they know where they rank in the class, and that can be, like, brought up and enlarged. That's a good thing, we should go back to that. But to a leftist, that's a form of violence, because you are hurting the people who didn't put in the effort to do as well.

Or the leftist is admitting that some people are born smarter than others. And then you get into the whole genetics of that, which is something else they don't admit. You know, so many contradicting views. But no, I, I think that that's an, an enormously good way to motivate people to do better.

Peer pressure in a high school environment is, is really motivating.

Simone Collins: I've also really liked the way that a lot of things just aren't cared about. That people don't make a big deal out of the fact that grades are publicly posted. That men and women, you know, shower together in locker rooms and it's not a big deal.

Oh

Malcolm Collins: wait, so it's a completely post gender society. Which is weird,

Simone Collins: because like a lot of, I would say a lot of progressives are fighting for a post gender society. They're fighting for gender neutral bathrooms. They're fighting for gender neutral locker rooms. And I'm like Yeah, [00:18:00] and they're here, and this is how they're done right, which is like, it's not an issue.

Malcolm Collins: Well, this is totally post racial and post gender. Women are given no special status in this world to create equality, and it's the same with different ethnic groups. Everyone is actually treated equally, which to a leftist is racism because they, redefine the term racism. To a leftist, that is sexism because they're all just, you know, you wouldn't even have a trans issue here because everyone uses the same bathrooms and the same showers.

Simone Collins: Yeah, but I think there would be fewer trans people in this world because they're just, there's so little functional difference between the genders. So like, why would you? I mean, like women still look feminine, they have slightly different, I mean, slightly different uniforms, but it is really impressive how representation in governmental leadership in the military and all factions of the military are very gender equal.

And this is not to say that people don't have romantic relationships or compete, you know, like two men compete against each [00:19:00] other for the same moment, for example, but I just, I find that so refreshing and wonderful. And. I think this is I was just listening to an episode of blocked and reported and which is one of my favorite podcasts in which the hosts Jesse and Katie, we're discussing how sometimes like raising awareness about an issue can just make it so much worse.

And if you just don't make it a big deal, people just let it happen. Whereas if you make a big deal out of it, then it becomes polarized. Then there's baggage, then there's a war involved. And. Suddenly the thing becomes non functional. This happened, for example, they were pointing out, and I thought this was really interesting with the, what was it called?

The, the vaccine that we used, that we got for not getting cervical cancer.

Malcolm Collins: It doesn't matter. The cervical cancer vaccine. Yeah.

Simone Collins: But anyway, yeah. I, I love that. And I love that's like, and also the lines in it are so good. And I think it's one of those movies where like, we can see [00:20:00] how even someone who hates propaganda and hates like national pride In depicting it makes it just so attractive.

Like the, the first movie starts out with like a propaganda video, you know, of like a news bulletin from the government. And it just has so many wonderful, catchy elements. Of course, one of them being our podcast, Do You Want to Know More? But there's also so many

Malcolm Collins: slogans like So I want to talk about two things you talked about here.

One is, you know, you talk about gender equality. It's shown multiple times. The Sky Marshal of this world is a woman. And I think they're actually replaced, replaced with a black woman, right? Like when they're replacing them with a more competent one, because they do a bad job, they get replaced. And it was Sky Marshal Tahat Maru.

So even a non Western, you know, that's a pretty obviously an African name. So this is a

Simone Collins: world where the main characters in the beginning are not in America. They're in Latin America. Yeah, there it is. It's so

Malcolm Collins: actually pluralistic that the leftist can't like, when you, where are the, we're all [00:21:00] like the federation capital.

Where are all the federation scenes? They're like in San Francisco. They're like in New York. It's an incredibly Eurocentric world, the world that they make. And, and, and that's where we're attacked. And I'd also hear note the propaganda films. This is another thing leftists complain about. Like they are annoyed at the scene where you have the government psyops organization and they're releasing a video about how best to kill arachnids.

And then they show them shooting one of the bugs on screen with, with useful information And To people, humans that are putting themselves in harm way fighting an aggressive species that attacked us. One, what started the war, we settled on lands that they claimed were theirs. Like, it wasn't even direct competition.

And two, it wasn't even, you know, licensed by the government. So they are completely in the wrong for this. You know, they could have just tried to talk to us. It was shown they had the capacity for this in Starship Troopers 3. And one thing I quite like in Starship Troopers 3, is it also shows how even when they're trying to act their best, evil the bugs [00:22:00] are because of different conceptions about life because they're a hive mind.

And so when they're trying to, like, talk to the humans, finally, in, in, in one scene, it's this horrifying scene where it's a bunch of puppeted bodies on, like, tentacles. Talking to somebody of like their dead friends and it's like, well, I thought these would be good things to talk to you. It's because you were friends with them and you know, like you're comrades, right?

Like it has such a small understanding of humanity that it thinks that that's how you kill a person's friends and then puppet their corpses. Yeah. So they're familiar. Like. I, I, I love that, but it also shows why they didn't understand what was happening with the Mormons and stuff like that, but it is because they are a lesser form of life than the pluralistic humanity.

They are the hive mind that the ultra progressive pines for. But in this scene where he's shooting it, I'm like, I think literally within the ethics of the universe, no problem with that. This is an aggressive species. It's pretty obvious that individually, the type of arachnid that he was killing is not a sentient entity.

That only as a hive [00:23:00] mind are they sentient entities. This is shown from the perception of, of the arachnids, maybe a brain bug is a sentient entity because the psychics were able to talk to them, but they're not able to talk to or read the other. Insects, it's shown when they can even communicate with things like ferrets easily.

So, if, if they're able to easily communicate with a ferret, that means that this arachnid was less intelligent than a ferret. And then they're like, well, they're stomping bugs on screen. It's like, okay, like actual cockroaches, like human world cockroaches. I, I guess call PETA, you know, and, and, and even like looking down on your enemy is something that isn't elevated in the show.

There's a dissection scene where one of the girls is talking down on insects. And the biology teacher who is working for the government is saying that you shouldn't look down on insects. They can be just as complicated and sophisticated as humanity. And I know

Simone Collins: one of my favorites. You know, like propaganda lines is still the only good bug is a

Malcolm Collins: dead bug.

All right, I love we're in this for the species boys and girls And I always say that to like you like when we're it's simple numbers They have [00:24:00] more you know when we're out there fighting for the future of humanity. You know this genuinely pluralistic ordered and functioning society with freedom of speech, freedom of movement, some form of sacrifice to vote.

All of this seems very utopian to me. When contrasted with other societies we've seen where there is no more elevation of one eth SNCC group, or one gender, or one way of life over others, so long as you are shown to care about your fellow man and be willing to make sacrifices to improve the quality of life.

Because that's what the government's trying to do, either through protecting your fellow man, or through performing other forms of government service, protecting your fellow man. So I look at this scene where he shoots the thing and he's providing a valuable public service. There really wasn't another way to easily show the easiest way to kill them.

At least not vividly in the way that a human would remember. It was a completely justified thing in context. And in the third one, it has some of my favorite lines as well. And then the third one the major plot theme of it is that they realize [00:25:00] that the insects have something like a religion and then they're like, Oh, we should because it's implied that the government while it had allowed some freedom of religion, religion was really discouraged on earth.

And then the government begins to embrace religion because it realizes it's a useful tool for a well functioning society. And they begin to really start to believe it as they embrace it with, with great lines like

Across the Federation. Federal experts agree that A, God exists after all. B, he's on our side and C, he wants us to win. And there's even more good news believers as it's official. God's back, and he's a citizen too.

Malcolm Collins: And then it, it goes to this. Hanging of, of, it's like, and while religion is good, peace is not.

Bowing to a rising popularity all across the Federation, Sky Marshal Fidd declares that while religion is acceptable, peace is not.

Malcolm Collins: And then it takes this peace protester for a mass hanging, who's like [00:26:00] super coded lefty, like he's in a wheelchair, and he's like, you know, yelling, and, and, you know, what would be called one of those spiteful mutants, you know, these people who are by, by somebody like the Jolly Heretic.

In related news, peace terrorist Elmo Gonniff and 51 of his closest friends were hung this morning in what many believe to be the all time record for executions in a single day since the 21st century.

Malcolm Collins: And It's, it's, it's, and everyone's laughing at the hanging, you know, they, they think this is a, is a delightful time

But they can't silence you! F the Federation! You will not take my voice! You will not take me! You will not take away our power!

F k you all! F k you! F k you all! F k the Federation!

. and you might be like, Oh, look at how horrible this government is. They call him a piece. Well, what does peace mean to them? It's not peace between man and man. It's, it's human extinction.

Malcolm Collins: It's human extinction. That's what he's arguing for. And you can be like, no one would argue for that. Go online and look at the leftists talking about Starship Troopers today. [00:27:00] Yeah, they would, and they're already at that mentality.

They're already at this literal bugman mentality, where they prefer insects to man.

Because they want this world of no diversity. Unity of purpose and ideology and everything. Their goal is the genocide of human cultural diversity and all that makes us different. And I think that at the end of the day, and human beauty, and, and so many of the things that they thought that they were coding as evil in this movie.

And I even love the fashion, right? The fashion looks great in the movie. I love the outfits. And aesthetic isn't intrinsically evil or good. And the aesthetic that they chose was a pretty dope aesthetic.

Simone Collins: Sorry, but yeah, fashion puts the fashion fascism. It's just too consistent.

Malcolm Collins: Oh, obviously there's the one line that is my favorite above all lines in the movie that I will always quote and I think it's sort of, almost sort of like religiously ingrained in us because I just think it's such a true [00:28:00] thing, which is to say the, the difference between a citizen and a civilian is, is a citizen has the courage to make the safety of the human race, their personal responsibility.

And I think that when we decide like who we want to engage with as human beings, like, What we care about and what our real mission is, it is wrapped up in that word, making the safety of the human race, our personal responsibility in everything that we approach things. It's not just about our group. It's not just about people like us.

The systems that are being pushed by leftists now do not take the human race into account. And we are trying to create an ideology and way of engaging with the world that does take the human race first.

And I hope that this is a, you know, that the leftists out themselves to people who are on the edge about like, how evil are they really, or how long has this rot been going on? That a genuine leftist could have made a movie that, and this is what I did [00:29:00] end with. For leftists who are in the comments and want to argue against us, I'd really like you to describe within the context of the world one.

Genuinely negative or genuinely fascistic thing about the governing structure of the Star Trek movie world and I'm not even burdening you with the books in the movie as portrayed in the movie. What is evil about it? They have gender equality. They have ethnic equality. Anyone can vote. All they ask is that you undergo some sacrifice and you could say like, well, they talk about the failure of democracy.

Well, I'm sorry. Just as a passionate observer here. I would argue that most leftists would also argue democracy has failed. And, and I think most rightists think democracy is in the process of failing now. And I don't think that that's a particularly controversial statement. And that if we were going to come up with a plausible alternative system, one in which people had to sacrifice in order to vote.

Yeah, that's [00:30:00] one that I would consider really realistic to me. So I want you to explain to me what's actually evil about this system. Not just the outfits, not just that beautiful people live in it. What's actually wrong with it? That people have pride in their country, and in their case, their country is humanity, because that's what it represents, because it is a one world government.

Do people have pride in humanity? Is that what makes it evil? Is, is, is, is the fact that there's a, a hierarchy in this world what makes it evil? Is the fact that they post scores to the screen and they, they're doing what's effective and it doesn't care about individual feelings, is that what makes it evil?

Because I don't get it, I don't see, is it the fact that they, government sponsors educational videos? That, that are aligned with the governance and humanity's interests at the moment? Is that what makes it equal? Evil? Like, is it that you need the government to actively undermine humanity? To actively be promoting things about how bad humans are all the time?

Because you grew up with that and you think that that's what a sane, normal government does? Because that's what your government's been doing since you [00:31:00] started the school system trying to indoctrinate you into hating your own country? Into hating your own people? You define that as good? It's disgusting.

It's disgusting that anyone could look at this movie and see any evil in it, because I see none.

Simone Collins: I think what you're missing is that some people hold a fundamentally very different value system, where any form of violence or not privileging all lives equally, be they human or not is, is It seemed totally differently than how you see it.

So the fact that even that there's an army that puts people in harm's way, where people die, and they even show people dying in the news, you know, like, that is unthinkable, I think, to a very large swath of people today. Despite the fact that, like, in the past, like, I think that in World War I, there were, like, literal ads in the UK saying like, don't join for the

Malcolm Collins: wrong reason.

It was meant to be fascist propaganda [00:32:00] and that's why it's only showing the good things. The movie shows people due to government blunders dying horribly in huge, huge numbers. It is clearly not just propagandistic. It shows the flaws in its governing system, but then we see the consequence of that.

The governing gets. Change if only the U. S. Could do similar things

Simone Collins: after you're totally missing the fact that like people, many people don't, don't give a s**t about whether or not the government changes or whether or not the government is transparent about what's actually happening and mistakes being made.

What is not okay with many people, especially today, even though this is. I would say very unusual in human history is the fact that people are fighting in wars and in harm's way at all. The fact that people who are protesting are being executed at all. There, there are so many things with this movie, the fact that the scores are published in high school.

Where those who are low [00:33:00] performers are made fun of is, is, you know, like un, unthinkable.

Malcolm Collins: Sorry, we should clarify. It's, it's pretty implied that these are violent protests, i. e. killing people. It's not like protesting, protesting, because it's shown that you can disagree with the government without being even jailed or, or you can disagree with the government on air, which is not something you see in fiction.

Yeah, but you have to

Simone Collins: keep in mind a lot of people fighting for some forms of very progressive judicial reform now are asking for murderers to be let out of jail. We're then going out and murder again. Like, I'm just saying, like, the, a very common and predominant view today, which we see to be delusional because it, Definitely seems delusional and also very unusual for human behavior throughout history.

It's still very commonly held. So, if you, you know, ask viewers to say like, point out one thing that's wrong with this government, or one thing that's fascist, I mean, what they say is fascist is like, You know, all of these things that we see is entirely innocuous or

Malcolm Collins: even right wing coded. That's what they

Simone Collins: mean.

Well, yeah, if, if there's [00:34:00] national pride, I think even, even national pride is seen as quote unquote problematic by many progressive groups because national pride implies that you think that your nation is better than

Malcolm Collins: another nation in humanity because it's a one

Simone Collins: nation. Well, and that's humanist or whatever.

It's yeah, like I'm just saying, like, I don't think you really, I know, you know,

Malcolm Collins: they really do think more like the bugs than humanity and that's why they side with them. But anyway, I love you to death Simone. And this has been a productive conversation. I love you

Simone Collins: too, gorgeous. And I appreciate that you are doing your part.

Malcolm Collins: I'm doing my part.