Meetings with founders of seed companies can be difficult and debate, because its goin to be politically unacceptable for at least three, four months. You lose that ability to sort of, i call it like in tennis, when you're volleying back and forth,. Can't get on zoom is if they've got really good metrics. Even a walk to for me, is not the best because i like to take notes, i and it's really difficult o ta walk. And sometimes he screwed up so we may also use the function  to read each other’s body language.