In the early 90s you know we didn't Perl was always available in some cases so I really had iterated a lot on this whole back and forth with the database sending a SQL string getting a result back. As the 2000s roll along ORM-ish things with Perl that looked terrible to me they look really simplistic. It's kind of taken a very long time for SQL alchemy to be good but over 10 years it's gotten very refined.