There’s a long history of states solving major social challenges through ambitious and mission-driven public policy, such as getting a person on the moon, or the foundation of the UK’s national health service. But the last few decades have seen declines in the ambition and entrepreneurship of the state, at a time when global sustainability challenges have called for more and better leadership. How did this happen, why is this a problem for implementing policies consistent with the goals of ecological economics, and what can we do about it? In this episode we discuss these themes with Rosie Collington, the author alongside Prof Mariana Mazzucato of The Big Con: How the Consulting Industry Weakens our Businesses, Infantilizes our Governments and Warps our Economies. Rosie is a political economist at the Institute for Innovation and Public Purpose at UCL, studying how governments can develop the ability to govern socio-economic transformations. Hosted by Sophus zu Ermgassen. Edited by Aidan Knox.