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78: Cathy Heller | Being Creative in Spite of Your Day Job

The Jordan Harbinger Show

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The Importance of Listening

"There's ways of doing that where it doesn't feel exactly like you don't want to license a song to a diaper commercial," she says. "It's hard for people. I even see this with people in dating, you know, like people who are still single and theydon't want to listen."

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