Contrasting Approaches to Fertility in France and China

Malcolm and Simone analyze shocking new fertility collapse data - France reaching new record lows, and China seeing 60%+ declines in just 8 years. China links this to gays in bizarre "beware homosexuals" lectures while France pursues worse policy. They discuss China's likely future restrictions and coercions as the "handmaid's tale" bellwether, as well as pollution's sterility impact. For France, only serious cultural renewal could help.

Malcolm Collins: [00:00:00] France this year began to fall into freefall. Or in this past couple years, it's begun to fall into freefall. And it really can no longer be included in the club of countries that are resistant to fertility collapse. And I, there's been new data from China

What that would represent is a decline of 60 percent from 2016

60%. That is catastrophic. Imagine if this was like an economy, right, and an economy shrunk by 60 percent in eight years. This is the fertility equivalent of hyperinflation. It is the fertility equivalent of having to walk around with wheelbarrows to buy a loaf of bread. A wheelbarrow is full of cash, you know, when you hear about these situations.

People do not understand the societal effects this is going to have. And anyone who's in one of these groups that is going to be targeted because of this, like the LGBT populations around the world if you [00:01:00] cannot fix this problem, if you cannot convince people who are okay with gay people existing to have kids at an above replacement fertility rate, you will be hunted down and systemically exterminated, and we're beginning to see the first waves of this.

Would you like to know more?

Malcolm Collins: 1 of the really funny things that happened to us on a recent flight was over the speakers.

They had to explain. When the mass drop, you know, in case of a depressurization of the cabin be sure to take off your mask before putting on the the math that's delivering oxygen. So this is, and I turned

Simone Collins: to Malcolm and I'm like, you know what? These people, let them go.

Malcolm Collins: Just genuinely, if you are so terrified about COVID still that you are wearing a mask and end up.

The cabin is depressurized and you try to put the oxygen

Simone Collins: mask over your N95. Yeah, really?

Malcolm Collins: You probably should die. Like, I'm sorry, like the human civilization [00:02:00] is better without you. And I salute your contribution for it by ducking

Simone Collins: out. Yeah. Let, let nature play. It's course on this crashing air, not that like, you're going to survive anyway, but I guess you have to door blows out.

Nevermind. But yeah, that was a, that was a really astounding. So that must have meant that on this flight 1 or more people put on an oxygen mask on top of their.

Malcolm Collins: This is new. This must have been when the door

Simone Collins: blew out. Yeah, this must have been when the door blew out because this was a new comment we'd never heard on a flight.

We've been on plenty of flights. Someone out there needed to be told anyway. Yikes. Okay. Now for hey, my gorgeous demigod of a husband. What do China and France have in common that is not a love of couture?

Malcolm Collins: Well, a recent fertility collapse, but I actually want to, the countries are very different, but we're going to talk about them together in this video because we recently did an all China video.

And [00:03:00] I, there's been new data from China that is really shocking to us, but there's also been new data for France. So, China has historically been having a fertility collapse problem. It's just infinitely worse than anyone thought. Recent statistics show that in just the last eight years, the number of kids being born within China has declined by 60%.

And I'm gonna post a graph here that shows how much year over year, but this means for like the past five years, you've had double digit declines in fertility rate every single year. That's insane. But France has actually, along with the U. S., been one of the countries that has really bucked this trend.

So. The United States, as everyone knows is one of the countries that actually has fertility rate fall slower than other countries. The two other countries that really fit this when you're talking about their, their at least if you control for their wealth are, have historically been Israel and France.

Right? So if we're talking about year over year decline in the U. S. fertility rate, this last year I think it was only 2%. Well, [00:04:00] France this year began to fall into freefall. Or in this past couple years, it's begun to fall into freefall. And it really can no longer be included in the club of countries that are resistant to fertility collapse.

Yeah, which we, we're really

Simone Collins: excited about. I mean There was one, you know,

Malcolm Collins: yeah, so I'll post a graph on this screen and we actually posted a meme of like the fire dog alongside this graph because you can see this is like a falling off a cliff fertility rate at this point, but also, you know, France registered.

So we're going to post an article here. 678, 000 births last year, representing a decrease of 7 percent from 2022 and down 20 percent from 2020. That is absolutely shocking. Now, France is trying to adapt to this. They are trying to give They're actually doing a bunch of stuff that's going to make the problem worse.[00:05:00]

So let's talk about what they're doing, and then we can contrast this with some of the new things that we've learned that China is doing. Nobody

Simone Collins: listens to you, Malcolm. It's so sad. Why won't they just listen?

Malcolm Collins: Nobody listens to me. I'm just out there telling them, What you're doing is not going to work.

What you're doing

Simone Collins: is not going to work. Is, is right now of the news outlets that are reaching out to, to us about demographic collapse, the vast majority of them have been French recently. Like France is aware of this, but they're like doing it

Malcolm Collins: totally wrong. Yeah. Okay. So what is France doing? They are extending maternity leave.

And giving more paid maternity leave. That is the dumbest thing you could do. If you care about high fertility weights, you should remove maternity leave at all as a concept. Like it is a bad concept because it creates this idea that women must be pampered throughout their pregnancy, which increases the perceived difficulty of the pregnancy to the woman.

Do you want to talk about this? It's

Simone Collins: like a cultural it's, it's considerate propaganda. [00:06:00] That's saying that having a kid is incredibly difficult. Also, if you actually care about like feminism in the workplace, making women more dangerous employees to have, and especially women who seem to want to have a family.

Is not a good way, especially in France, where it's already almost impossible to fire someone once you hire them. Not a good way to make women a safe hire.

Malcolm Collins: No, this is terrible for women. Terrible. And worse than that. I mean, so what do you do? Like what is the actual policy you should be pushing in this area?

It should be, it should be that you cannot disallow women from bringing their baby into the workplace. And that when a woman gives birth, if she wants to work from home, unless you have a hard and provable reason she can't work from home, she has to be allowed to work from home. Yeah,

Simone Collins: but if she has to work in the office, there should be childcare available.

Malcolm Collins: Yeah, but I actually think that this work from home law should be just broadly, like if you want to really increase fertility rates, [00:07:00] this law should just be the law of the land. For men and women.

Simone Collins: For men and women. Because men can also be the ones to stay at home. Totally. Right. But

Malcolm Collins: the point being is if a company cannot prove why a person has to go to the office with statistics, because the statistics just aren't there, like we've, we've done work from home versus work from the office, re recorded data on this.

Work from home is dramatically more productive than work from

Simone Collins: home. And ironically so one of the most famous, pretty rigorous studies that was done on this early, I think it was Somewhere in Asia, and it was a travel company where they did a, a controlled, like some people, I think it was controlled worked from home, whereas other people stayed in the office.

They found importantly that the people who worked from home were more productive, got more done. The people who worked in the office were less productive, but the people who worked in the office got more promotions. So not only are anti work from home policies damaging to a company's productivity, They also encourage the promotion of less productive employees who invest more [00:08:00] time in water cooler chat and politicking and performative work that is ultimately killing and draining life from the company.

Malcolm Collins: Yeah. You are promoting the brown nosers that if we were running a large company, we would have a policy looking for anyone who was. Promoting people who work from the office like I would consider that as a huge ding to an employee if they wanted to work for the office, I'd be like, oh, so you don't want to work.

You like office politics and office theater, but that's an aside there. So those would be like, actual useful things that France could implement. Instead, they're doing the dumbest thing, which is increasing fertility payments during a woman's maternity leave which is, you know, backed by this sort fundable soon, given the rate of the Fertility collapse in France.

Yeah,

Simone Collins: what younger generations are going to pay for this? God,

good

Malcolm Collins: point. But now we need to talk about what China's doing, which is sort of the exact opposite. I'm, it's unethical, but I won't say that it's necessarily [00:09:00] stupid. Like, I don't know what's going to come of it. Because no one else has tried this before, but it's pretty bold.

So what China has started doing is, hold on, I'm going to pull up the card here that somebody had passed out by the CCP. So, one is they are reaching out to any mother that is under 35 and telling them to have more kids. They're like, okay, you've already had a kid. You need to have more kids. So pressure from the government.

That could actually work, but the other thing that they're cracking down on, and I'll post a picture of a card here which is, beware of homosexuals cards basically explaining to people the threat, quote unquote, the threat, Of homosexuals, and and this is a threat in so far as again, I wouldn't use the word homosexuals.

I'm just using the word that that is used in this translation here. I find it to be a little more derogatory than I'm comfortable with, but [00:10:00] let's see what they say here. Oh, so it's, it's, it's a lecture so that they can attend. So, Wu Zane Plaza warns you, beware of homosexuals. How can a country be prosperous without full descendants?

How can we live healthy lives without a prosperous motherland? And it's a lecture that they can attend on preventing homosexuals.

Simone Collins: Well, I love that. Like, I remember American propaganda against the gays and it was like, he's a predator, you know, like it just completely misunderstood, but it was also just like, this is a cultural menace.

Whereas like China is like, but they're not having courage. Which is really interesting. I wish that China could actually just be like. Okay, to all gay and lesbian couples to, like, we will provide to you free, you know, IVF, we will make it very easy for you to have kids, we will help you because, I mean, the outcomes also seem to show, like, from that [00:11:00] Netherlands study that that we looked at, that Children, like, of surrogates to gay couples had better outcomes a little bit on average, so, like, why not?

I mean,

Malcolm Collins: China should be. Sampling bias, because, you know, gay people, it's a lot harder for them to have kids. But the point here being, and they're, they're going to have fewer kids, which we'll talk about in a second. When she said she loves this. She doesn't mean she loves that gay people are being oppressed.

She said she means she finds the mechanism of oppression comical. Yes, the earlier oppression was in the United States, but the reason you had that earlier oppression within the United States was fertility. And this is really important for people to understand, and is why our book, The Fragmentist Guide to Crafting Religion, is so important and why everyone should read it, because it discusses some concepts that no one has really discussed before.

So, previously, in the field of memetics, this is how ideas evolved, people thought of memes as things that basically captured a person's mind like, like got into their [00:12:00] mind like a virus and then that person to reproduce themselves. So they would get in that person's mind and then that person would, would go out and try to convince as many other people as possible of the idea.

But as we point out, not exactly. So some memes are completely parasitic like that. The urban monoculture is an example of this, but other means in a historic context were actually clusters of mimetic ideas that improved the individual biological. fitness of the group. And by biological fitness, what I mean is at the evolutionary level groups that had these mimetic clusters were one, a higher fertility rate, two had lower death rates and three were better at resisting simple viral mimetics.

What do we usually call these? These are what religions were or what we call cultivars. So they are these symbiotic cultural groups. Now there is a reason. We seem arbitrary that almost every long live successful cultural group in human history has had an undertone of [00:13:00] homophobia to it. Up until the point where it becomes a dominant societal cultural group and really successful for a while.

And then it usually drops its homophobia, and then it has a collapse. But it's not the drop of homophobia that causes the collapse. It's a drop of the culture more broadly. It's when they When they begin to accept gay people is often when they're throwing out all the other rules that seem arbitrary to them, and they don't understand, and they're starting to do all the orgies and all the opulence and everything like that, which most cultures shame.

And so the question is, is why? Why? Because it lowers fertility rates. And so the iterations of those cultures that didn't have these prohibitions had lower fertility rates and the iterations that did have these prohibitions which led to the iterations that had these prohibitions out competing the iterations that didn't have these prohibitions.

Now this is. Not great from our perspective. I mean, we believe in sort of maximum individual choice. And, and we, we don't like that we're seeing this increase in homophobia, but there is a reason why that historically the homophobic groups have competed the other groups in China is recognizing this gay people have fewer kids and straight people.

Therefore we can increase the [00:14:00] fertility rate by shaming gay people and by making people afraid to be publicly gay.

Simone Collins: And we need to add that China is the bellwether of the coercive. Effects of demographic collapse. So anything that you see China doing now is stuff that you can expect other nations to start doing as they reach higher levels of desperation.

So if you actually care about gay rights, and if you actually care about reproductive choice. You should actually care about demographic collapse. And you can already look to places like China to see exactly why. I mean, I can't believe they have like, Hey, watch out for the gays card.

Malcolm Collins: It's hilarious.

So to give you an idea of how bad things are in China right now, which is dramatically worse than the situation in France. Like they're not really in the same boat in terms of the scope. If the newly leaked data from China is right, and they have 8 million fewer births in 2023. What that would represent is a decline of 60 percent [00:15:00] from 2016 and a 17 percent year over year decline.

60%. That is catastrophic. Imagine if this was like an economy, right, and an economy shrunk by 60 percent in eight years. This is the fertility equivalent of hyperinflation. It is the fertility equivalent of having to walk around with wheelbarrows to buy a loaf of bread. A wheelbarrow is full of cash, you know, when you hear about these situations.

People do not understand the societal effects this is going to have. And anyone who's in one of these groups that is going to be targeted because of this, like the LGBT populations around the world if you cannot fix this problem, if you cannot convince people who are okay with gay people existing to have kids at an above replacement fertility rate, you will be hunted down and systemically exterminated, and we're beginning to see the first waves of this.[00:16:00]

We are warning you because we don't want that to happen, but it is the way this plays out. If we cannot convince people who support you to stay around in the world, okay, that's the end game. And we explain, one of my favorite quotes that I always mention is when The Guardian, when we explain this to them and they're like, well, that sounds an awful lot like a threat.

I'm like, yes, it is a threat. If a threat the same way, it's when I threaten my kid to not touch the stove or his hand's gonna be burned. We told you this was gonna happen. We've been telling you this is going to happen for years. It's going to be bad. And, and, and this is, this is a, a broader issue here.

We can say, well, will these China policies work? I don't know how effective they'll be, but we can see predecessors of these policies in Iran. Because Iran has been having this problem a lot longer than China has. And, you know, they have a theocratic state, so they've been able to try a lot of these practices.

And they have ramped up the homophobia and stuff like that. And they have seen a small increase in fertility rate, but it's [00:17:00] not enough. The, the core thing that they actually did was make it harder for women to get educated. And that really increased their fertility rates. You know, also not f ing great.

But we are barreling head first to a handmaid's tail. And the virus that is causing everyone to become sterile, the virus that is creating all this is wokeness. Well,

Simone Collins: and ironically, though, there's even more to it. And I, I mentioned this on another podcast, but I was watching a YouTube video about something unrelated in China.

And I saw footage of what people were eating for like a typical lunch. And it was in this case, like a soup out of a, a plastic bag within like a styrofoam cup that was delivered. And I'm just. Like anyone who's like kind of sensitive to, you know, information about like endocrine disruptors and like, you know, eating things out of plastic that has been heated or anything like that, you know, just immediately freaks out.

And then I immediately thought to the ADV China videos that we used to watch back in the day when they were still in China and the guys, what is it? It's Lao Y [00:18:00] 86 and then South African

Malcolm Collins: 86. And anyway, it's called China. Fact Chasers today.

Simone Collins: Yeah. They, they kept telling stories of, you know, personal encounters with adulterated food, adulterated beverages.

And I'm, I'm, I'm also seeing in the actual like Handmaid's Tale show series, which I've only watched a couple episodes of frankly, so that I could understand what people are like. Okay. comparing us to is that it's it's, it's like pollutants, I think, that are causing people to become infertile.

So the reason that they start coercing some women to be handmaids is because like literally they're the only ones who are capable of having kids. And in China, I, I'm kind of like, okay, well, so they're going to get to a point where they've exhausted all of the coercive methods and mechanisms they have, and they are still not going to get women to have kids because of the amount of pollutants, both air pollutants and like general like food adulteration problems that they actually have in, in the country.

So this isn't just a problem of like. [00:19:00] You know, these people are going to struggle to have kids because of cultural factors. This is

Malcolm Collins: a problem where I think they're going forced insemination.

Simone Collins: Yeah. But even forced insemination, isn't going to help you a whole lot. If your entire like endocrine system, your entire reproductive system is not functioning properly.

No, no, no,

Malcolm Collins: no, no, no, no. So, so I'll discuss where China's going first. They're going to basically make people without children, second class citizens. Okay. In their tax policy and the way you get promoted within the CCP, if you don't have above a certain number of children, you will be a second class citizen and you will be treated like human garbage.

So, okay. First, they're that

Simone Collins: now? Because it seems like that would actually be way more effective than a lot of, like right now they're doing like matchmaking

Malcolm Collins: and like Because they, they haven't fully accepted how big the problem is yet. You know, even a place like China, it takes a while. But I mean I

Simone Collins: would say that restricted access to birth control is like pretty big shots fired vis a vis.

Malcolm Collins: Nah, I mean in the U. S. it would be, but given the scope of China's problem, it's 60 percent fertility collapse, that's actually pretty minor. So, next, they're gonna realize that doesn't work because of all this biological stuff that [00:20:00] we're talking about. They're gonna realize it may be only like One in three men can actually fertilize women anymore, and that's where forced insemination comes in because then they're going to be using other men's sperm to inseminate people's wives because they're going to be like, well, you can't, you can't get them pregnant anymore.

Keep in mind the fertility collapse, while it's affecting both men and women, it's affecting men more. And so I think that a bunch of these men are going to be infer, you know, you talk about like these endocrine disruptors, that means that men that are gestating right now in these women's bellies. The vast majority of them like in the U.

S., like, when you look at like raw nationalist predictions, which I think are probably right, is by 2060, half of men in Europe and the United States will be infertile. In China, I expect it to be closer to like 80 percent given the type of behavior that you're talking about, like eating food out of heated plastic bags and stuff like that.

And if that's the case, and keep in mind, we're talking about the next generation, the generation that gestated in women [00:21:00] doing these sorts of behaviors. They are going to be this effeminate and we've done videos on like the new sexualities and like femboids and stuff like that the the tide study shows really clearly this changes men into something other than men exactly They they explain even like seven years afterwards if they were exposed to these chemicals more female like than male like play behavior and I think that this is actually a huge component of the rise of the trans movement is it really is a rise of trans individuals, of men who are not fully men, at least the, the, the male to female trans movement.

I think the male trans movement, that's a different phenomenon, but you can watch our videos on trans stuff to see what we actually think. I think that like our women, what is it? Like what, what makes someone a woman with one of the videos we did on that. But anyway. So what is your thought? Like, which of these solutions, do you think the China solutions are going to work?

How would you predict China ends up trying to tackle this?

Simone Collins: Yeah, well, I mean, what you said actually about them switching over to status, which I've [00:22:00] heard no signs of. I think that's a fairly astute prediction because I, I do think that in China where reputation matters so much and social status is really important as well, that, that can be.

Fairly effective. And that they eventually will have to turn to that. But I also, I, I can see it maybe being something that actually they wait too long to do because I think a lot of people who are probably very high up in the CCP themselves have zero to one kids. So there would have to be some kind of grandfather clause, right?

Because, but then, you effectless policy. So I'm just saying, like, I question, I think that that's a very effective way to go. I think yeah. You know, changing social status to, to coerce or inspire people to have kids will be effective. And I think that like tax policies can totally be effective. Like where you have huge tax breaks or you pay higher tax if you don't have kids.

But just,

Malcolm Collins: well, then there's the other thing, which is, which is worth considering which I think people like when we go to France, right. And [00:23:00] like, like people are like. Oh, who are like your, who's, when your family's building alliance in France, like who's your best French friend? You know, I'm not, I'm not gonna call out her name here, but you know, she's a Muslim and she's a first, I don't know, I think she's like a second or third generation immigrant, but from Guinea no, no, she first generation immigrant from Guinea.

And they're like, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. Your best friend in France is a Muslim immigrant? And, and they're like, who's your friend in the UK? Your best friend in the UK? I go, oh, she's a second generation Hindi immigrant. They're like, wait, wait, wait, wait. Why aren't you like focused on building alliances with like British people?

I'm like, because they're not going to exist in a hundred years. Like, we are like, you can say that people are like, oh, so you must be like a weird sort of great replacement theorist where you're like, okay, yeah, but we're just forming. No, not at all. The, the Muslims are not the reasons why French people are going extinct.

And, and, and Indian immigrants to the UK are not the reason why white people in the UK aren't having [00:24:00] kids. That's all on them. They just decided to erase themselves. You know, I can't do anything about that, but I need to be realistic when it comes to. What alliances are important for my family to build and alliances with white Europeans, basically pointless from an intergenerational perspective.

Because when I say white Europeans, I mean, like, native whatever Europeans, they, their fertility rates are low. There's nothing you can really do to stop it at this point. I think, like, we talked about trying to work. I think the CCP will eventually find a way to stabilize their fertility. Do I think France will eventually find a way to stabilize their fertility?

Yeah, when it's a Muslim country. Do I see that as a bad thing? No! Like, there's a reason why our family's religion incorporates a lot of part of Islam, you know, and is like, and I have a lot of Muslim friends, and there's a lot of Muslim first generation immigrants in the fornatalist movement who were working to keep them Having their culture, they would say assimilated.

What they really mean is cultural [00:25:00] genocide, right? When somebody says, I want to assimilate Muslims, I mean, I want to erase every part of their culture that goes against the urban monoculture. They're not assimilating them to Christian conservative traditions. And so I don't actually

Simone Collins: think personally, I don't think that Europe, the European people who are complaining about.

Muslims are not really complaining about Muslims, they are complaining about highly uneducated impoverished refugee populations. And I don't think that there would be any difference in the damage that they're seeing if those highly uneducated, impoverished refugee populations Oh yeah,

Malcolm Collins: this is a huge problem for socialist economies, and I agree with that.

And I think that the key way to fix this is to stop giving immigrants access to your social services. That's stupid and insane. Why would you do that? But like, like, it's genuinely insane. Why would you give a first generation immigrant access to your social services? You're creating a really bad incentive structure there.

I know,

Simone Collins: but you know, we're ones to talk though, because like we believe like in any sort of governance [00:26:00] design. Those, you, you should only get benefits to the extent that you're contributing. So anyone like, and if you can, if you are taking from the state more than you give, you have no voice and you should have no voice.

But hold on.

Malcolm Collins: I, I mean, I wanna, I wanna make a side here, which, which is the point that we're making and it's important that, you know, this is, this is clear, is that these countries, because of this stupid incentive system they have. Do disproportionately draw lower quality immigrants than you're going to get in the U.

S. And when I say lower quality, what I mean is that they are much more likely to live off of the state. They're much less likely to contribute economically to the state. And, and so, like, like, an objective standpoint, I'm talking from an economic standpoint, right? But this does not mean that these countries don't also have an elite population of immigrants that are Muslim as well.

Like, yeah. Muslims are a very diverse population group. And there is an educated elite among Muslim populations which is also higher fertility than a lot of these native populations and that Muslim communities [00:27:00] actually, in my, at least in my experience, do a better job of elevating their elite than other communities, and they are much more comfortable serving the elite within the community.

So you don't need a high quality average within Muslim majority populations as much as you do within non Muslim majority populations by that. What I mean is they're much less enamored with things like democracy

Simone Collins: and they're more extremely meritocratic. You're saying.

Malcolm Collins: Mm. I wouldn't call it meritocratic, but I, I'd call it monarchic or autocratic.

Oh, I see. In a way where they understand that it's generally better to have the best of them running everything and making all the decisions and not leading things to votes. Yeah. And I guess

Simone Collins: you, you say not meritocratic because you're saying the best of them as defined by their culture, which you view as a little bit.

Not what you

Malcolm Collins: internal culture heuristics, but it is kind of more meritocratic. It's like meritocratic by their terms combined with autocratic. [00:28:00] Yeah. Which again, I guess this is like a horribly offensive thing to say, but it's, it's like, if you understand and hang out with Muslims, it's objectively true and it's not like a bad system.

In, in, in groups where you have like lower average economic productivity, These larger immigrant populations, and again, maybe lower average economic productivity. I'm saying specifically the individuals who are being drawn to these socialist economies, which are paying their way. Once they come.

Obviously, the people who are going to be disproportionately drawn to that are the people who are lower economic productivity.

Simone Collins: Maybe someone who's watching this can also help us understand this when it comes to meritocracy. You. When speaking with a journalist at one point recently had said something like, you know, I believe that rather than being judged by the color of their skin, people should be judged by like their meritocratic contributions and values by their, their abilities.

And the journalist was like, Hey, can you, can you please repeat that? Like, as if like, are you sure you want to say that?[00:29:00]

Malcolm Collins: This was the journalist who was very hostile to us. Yeah.

Simone Collins: I

Malcolm Collins: have this radical belief. I have this radically conservative belief. And I know that this in our modern system is racist and horribly racist, but I have this weird dream that people should be judged by the content of their character and not the color of their skin. Now, I know this is racist. I know anyone who has ever said this must be a virulent, evil racist, but to me, it's a dream that I've always had for the future of America, a country where we can judge people by the content of their character and not the color of their skin.

And, and that might have been a part of the whole.

Simone Collins: Is this like really considered like, I would love for anyone to like, be like, here's why someone would hear that and, you know, ask you if you want to correct your statement for fear of you being completely destroyed by this ruinous comment you just made.

[00:30:00] Because maybe there's something we're missing here and we would love to understand that. Yeah,

Malcolm Collins: well, I love it. Like, pro natalist, racist, because they believe in judging people by their, their meritocratic worth and the content of their character and not anything else. And that is clearly an attack on X and Y group.

And I'm like, if that, if you think that that's clearly an attack on X and Y group, then by our standards, you have a pretty racist. Opinion of X and Y group. Okay? Because I believe that there are excellent people within all populations. And I, you see this within the data, and we've posted the statistic before, but it just shocks me.

If you look within the United States, if you look at populations, by what percent are they conservative versus what percent are they Democrat? And you look at blacks in Hispanics within these populations if you look at the difference between their test scores and white individuals within these populations test scores they are lower.

In the Republican controlled districts than they are in the Democrat [00:31:00] controlled districts. So Democrat policies, these policies that are supposed to be helping these groups are really intergenerationally disempowering them. And I think through that creating a. Permanent underclass and a permanent ethno underclass that the Democrats can use as a safe voting block because they prevent these individuals from actually educating themselves and learning that the Democrats are not their friends, learning that the data shows they're not their friends, learning that the data shows and the statistics I'll tell you till the end of the earth, 538 poll, Nate Silver, you know, very middle of the line that until Obama was elected More white Democrats than white Republicans said they would not vote for a black president.

Democrats are not like undercover racist. They are actually super, super

Simone Collins: racist. Well, and you remembered that research that I

Malcolm Collins: shared with you. And I'm going to post another graph of how left leaning media sources are these days. Which, which, you know, we'll show you that they, they, they control pretty much all of the media that you are consuming, [00:32:00] unless you

Simone Collins: watch Breitbart.

And you'll remember the research I shared with you as well, that showed that. We'll say non white populations, black, Hispanics, et cetera fared better. And maybe there's, there's certainly a selection bias that's like taking place here, but that lived in Republican districts, Republican dominated districts had, I think, better economic and other like social outcomes.

Minority groups living in democratic majority areas. So it, it just, it really does seem like after you see research like that, it seems awfully suspicious and it seems an awful lot like minority groups in those areas are being intentionally suppressed and, and kept down. In a way that makes them dependent on especially a lot of like the at least state services.

That's the goal.

Malcolm Collins: They keep them economically disempowered and uneducated so that they can use them as a safe voting bloc. Without [00:33:00] realizing that the Democrats have always been the party of the Klan. It never changed. The party's never fully switched. There were switches within some policy positions but they just changed the names of a few things and now the Klan is called Antifa.

But they are just as evil and just as racist as they have ever been and they rely on keeping these groups economically disempowered. While promoting token individuals within these groups to positions of authority and you can be like, well, that doesn't sound right. That's what the slave owners did.

Yeah, like, sorry, it disgusts me. It disgusts me that I see this still going on in our country. And, and, that these racist groups have thrived by changing racism to quote unquote anti racism, even though it has much of the same effects.

Simone Collins: It's bad. It's really

Malcolm Collins: bad. Yeah. But so what do you think?

Endgame, France, China?

Simone Collins: I mean, yeah, China's gonna figure it out. I would say that China is, is a [00:34:00] country with thousands of years of rises and falls. You know, like it just, it's a cycle and it will find its way. But it may be very different.

Malcolm Collins: I

Simone Collins: don't know enough about France to know if they're a weird minority group, like weird Amish, like, high fertility isolated, very culturally hard. groups in France. If there are, then for sure there's hope, but also I feel like there's a collection of families in France that develops a, an intergenerationally durable culture, which is well described in your book.

The private is guide to crafting religion can totally change the trajectory here. Like if you had you know, 30 families in France, you know, more would be great, but like just 30 families. Yeah. Be like, you know what, we're going to go for this. We're all going to have a lot of kids. We're going [00:35:00] to give our kids an amazing childhood and amazing education.

We're going to empower them and we're going to inspire them to pass on this culture and have a lot of kids. Totally. French culture could be protected. Totally. French culture can be not only protected, but like made extra augmented brought back to a lot of what it was. A lot of French culture has already been lost.

And this is, you know, definitely a sore point in France. And it has been for a very long time. France used to be, you know, the cultural. Reactor core of Europe and to a great extent, the rest of the world. It used to be way more influential. I think that there's a huge opportunity to make France great again, but also, yeah, totally from a demographic standpoint for like, various French ethnicities and cultural niches to be represented in the future.

All of that depends on a sufficient number. Of families doesn't have to be a lot of them and only those who are into this building an intergenerational durable culture. So for China, I'm like, yeah, they're going to figure it out for France. It really comes down to the acts of a very small number of [00:36:00] people.

And that is not something we can predict. It really depends on them. Does that make sense?

Malcolm Collins: That makes sense. I also think to an extent there's a reason for cultural alliances here, which France needs to be more intentional about, but the UK has done pretty well. So I'll explain what I mean by this. We, the reason why we think diversity has value is we think that different cultural groups are actually different from each other.

Like, diversity would have no value if we were all actually the same. Some cultural groups are much more like other cultural groups than other cultural groups are, right? The if you look at like, for example, Hindi immigrants in the UK. Hindis, culturally, the ones that are immigrating, which are mostly Brahmins and stuff like that, they are well, actually you have some other population groups, but the Hindis are just British people.

Like, very, very, very close culturally. Like, ethnically they might be different, but, but, but, me as an outsider, when I said that Persians are basically Americans, was like, slightly more Audacious[00:37:00] aesthetic sense that is actually very aligned with Trump's you know, they're very entrepreneurial.

They're very frontier. They're very traditionalist, but in sort of like an American, like, put a spin on it way. With Hindi, they're very similar to UK people. They're very sort of like, play it by the books, play it by the numbers, you know, stiff upper lip. Let's push through this. Let's not, let's not do anything crazy here.

Let's all stay in a queue. So I think like a UK, even if their population is replaced by Hindi, I don't think you've lost the UK at all. Now, I don't think that this will happen because the Hindi Fertility rate is quite low now, which is a shame to me because, you know, and if they could work together better in terms of who they're importing.

But I really hate this idea of cultural assimilation. I believe instead you should import cultural groups that are similar and that are able to work alongside yours really efficiently. And I think British people, Hindi people, these two groups go together swimmingly in terms of working together. They've been

Simone Collins: doing it.

We should say, this is not [00:38:00] a, a, a conservative view that, that the strength of diversity comes from diverse groups, staying diverse, which is to say, leaning into their cultural and other uniqueness. I was just reading an article that pointed out that for one of the Olympics recently president Obama, I think when he was still president was remarking at.

Just how successful the American Olympic team was thanks to its diversity. And he, he compared like Michael Phelps to Simone Biles, like these are two wildly different people, wildly different body types, and wildly different abilities as a result. We would not be able to kill it at the Olympics if we didn't have this level of genetic diversity.

So, you know, I mean, one, it's now kind of remarkable.

Malcolm Collins: That's pretty offensive, Simone, to say that Simone Biles couldn't do what Michael Phelps does and vice versa.

Simone Collins: Even though Michael Phelps does, like, basically giant paddles for feet. And is, like, forever long.

Malcolm Collins: No, he has, like, a weird thing with, like, his heart or metabolic, or metabolic structure.

There's a,

Simone Collins: there are a bunch of [00:39:00] very genetically unique things about him. And Simone Biles is, like, a superhuman. She's insane. Like her abilities is unbelievable, but again, like, so even, even progressive leaders recognize that diversity is meaningful and amazing and cool and provides a huge competitive advantage.

So I just want to point out again. Even though this is that prenatalism is so coded conservative and that's totally fine by us, whatever it is, it is a universal issue. Well,

Malcolm Collins: someone's caring about diversity these days. Like, Obama might do it, but he couldn't do that when running for an election.

Admit that Michael Phelps could not do what Simone Biles did if he was raised in her circumstances. I think

Simone Collins: that's a recent thing, though. I think when, when he was in office. People were allowed to acknowledge genetic diversity. It's something we're, like, we are totally going off the rails. We are losing our minds here.

But anyway, I know you have to run. I regret that because I tread here every second with you. I love you so much, Malcolm. You

Malcolm Collins: are amazing. You are an [00:40:00] amazing human being. Not as amazing as

Simone Collins: you. I can't, I still can't believe you're human. You're the best thing ever. I love you so much, Malcolm.