Influence techniques that backfire

Summary

In this episode, Andy talks with Dr. Katie Best, leadership coach and author of The Ten Toughest Leadership Problems and How to Solve Them. Drawing on years of coaching leaders across industries, Katie shares practical insights that help you tackle high-stakes leadership moments—especially when a coach isn't available.

They explore Katie's SOLVE framework for problem-solving under pressure, the danger of performative busyness, and how to make better decisions when trade-offs and uncertainty rule the day. You'll also hear how to unlock authentic influence without manipulation, foster healthy debate on overly "nice" teams, and support psychological safety in leadership and parenting. Andy and Katie also dig into how to empower women in leadership and how small actions can create big shifts in workplace culture.

If you've ever felt overwhelmed as a leader or wished for a coach in the moment, this conversation offers clarity, encouragement, and real tools you can start using today!

Sound Bites

• "You only have power if someone believes that you do."
• "All interaction is manipulative, but that doesn't mean it's toxic."
• "Performative busyness is one of the biggest traps for high performers."
• "Draw the line, or others will draw it for you."
• "Influence is about being a decent human, not just using techniques."
• "If you've done the learning, don't let it go to waste."
• "The idea that people put on an act at work has always fascinated me."
• "We owe it to ourselves, and if we're leaders of other human beings, we owe it to them as well, to show that it's okay to switch off."
• "Performative busyness is that kind of, we're never allowed to stop, and if we continue to perform, we keep that idea going that everyone needs to be busy all the time."
• "We are so much better at learning from positivity than we are from negativity."
• "We have to recognize that lots of people don't like speaking up in meetings."
• "It's much easier to do a positive thing than to not do a negative thing."

Chapters

• 00:00 Introduction
• 01:33 Start of Interview
• 01:45 Early Influences on Leadership
• 04:33 The Coaching Gap and Why She Wrote the Book
• 05:47 What Is Performative Busyness?
• 09:32 How Katie Protects Her Own Focus and Energy
• 12:00 Introducing the SOLVE Framework
• 18:00 Making Decisions with Uncertainty
• 20:40 Power and Influence: What's the Difference?
• 25:42 Why Influence Techniques Sometimes Backfire
• 26:43 Encouraging Debate in "Too Nice" Cultures
• 28:40 Building Psychological Safety on Your Team
• 31:00 Advice for Women Leaders (and the Men Who Support Them)
• 34:00 Leadership Lessons as a Parent
• 35:55 End of Interview
• 36:25 Andy Comments After the Interview
• 40:19 Outtakes

Learn More

You can learn more about Katie and her work at KatieBest.com.

For more learning on this topic, check out:

• Episode 442 with Dominic Ashley-Timms. Excellent ideas on how to coach the people around us—and ourselves.
• Episode 391 with Adam Bryant. Insightful and engaging stories about how people make the leap to being leaders.
• Episode 385 with Vanessa Patrick. She wrote a great book about How To Say No. Very empowering.

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Thank you for joining me for this episode of The People and Projects Podcast!

Talent Triangle: Power Skills

Topics: Leadership, Coaching, Decision Making, Influence, Communication, Psychological Safety, Conflict, Engagement, Organizational Culture, Team Development, Strategic Thinking, Problem Solving

The following music was used for this episode:

Music: On Point by Steven O'Brien License (CC BY 4.0): https://filmmusic.io/standard-license

Music: Tropical Vibe by WinnieTheMoog License (CC BY 4.0): https://filmmusic.io/standard-license