Ethan Smith is the CEO of Graphite—the leading SEO growth agency—and my go-to expert on SEO. After 18 years of mastering traditional SEO, Ethan has been at the forefront of what is called AEO: answer engine optimization, or, more simply, getting your product to show up in ChatGPT/Claude/Gemini/Perplexity answers. He’s discovered that ChatGPT traffic converts six times better than Google search—and most companies are completely missing this opportunity.
In our conversation, we discuss:
1. His 7-step playbook to rank #1 in ChatGPT
2. Why ChatGPT traffic converts 6x better than Google
3. How early-stage startups can win at AEO immediately (unlike with SEO, which takes years)
4. The three tactics that actually work: landing pages, YouTube videos, and Reddit comments
5. Why help-center content can suddenly be your highest-ROI investment
6. The specific Reddit strategy that works (spoiler: be authentic)
7. Why AI-generated content doesn’t work
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Where to find Ethan Smith:
• Twitter: https://twitter.com/ethan_l_s
• LinkedIn: https://bit.ly/ethans-linkedin
• Graphite: https://graphite.io/
• Graphite Research Papers: https://bit.ly/graphite-five-percent
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Where to find Lenny:
• Newsletter: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com
• X: https://twitter.com/lennysan
• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lennyrachitsky/
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In this episode, we cover:
(00:00) Welcome back, Ethan
(04:34) The changing landscape of SEO
(06:19) AEO (answer engine optimization) vs. GEO (generative engine optimization)
(08:13) The impact of AEO
(11:51) How early-stage startups can win at AEO
(14:34) The quality of AEO leads
(15:35) On-site vs. off-site traffic
(16:32) Reddit’s role in AEO and avoiding spam
(20:11) How AI models use citations (RAG)
(21:41) Key principles for winning at AEO
(25:00) Avoiding hyper-SEOed content, and the importance of originality
(28:55) Actionable AEO playbook: steps and experiments
(33:35) Tracking, measuring, and share of voice
(38:34) Adapting AEO for B2B, commerce, and early-stage companies
(41:11) Is letting AI index your content good?
(43:06) Experimentation, control groups, and measuring results
(46:15) The future of AEO, SEO, and search channels
(51:35) AI-generated content: what works and what doesn’t
(55:25) The dangers of infinite AI derivatives
(58:44) The future: convergence of LLMs and search
(01:00:40) Help-center optimization and the long tail
(01:03:18) Lightning round and final thoughts
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Resources and episode mentions: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/the-ultimate-guide-to-aeo-ethan-smith
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Production and marketing by https://penname.co/. For inquiries about sponsoring the podcast, email podcast@lennyrachitsky.com.
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Lenny may be an investor in the companies discussed.
To hear more, visit
www.lennysnewsletter.com
