Holding Both Victimization and Perpetration

This week's Therapy Chat features two leaders in our field, Thomas Hubl, PhD and Dick Schwartz, PhD speaking about the importance of including a collective lens in trauma work.

In this conversation, we explored the interdependence of individual and collective healing, the distinction between spirituality and religion, and the importance of addressing legacy burdens and cultural trauma. We talk about the popular culture's view of healing and how our culture promotes spiritual bypass through "quick fix" approaches to wellness. Listen in to this inspiring conversation with these two leaders.

Key Takeaways from this Episode:

• Individual and collective healing are interdependent.
• Spirituality is distinct from religion and can be healing.
• Healing can occur more rapidly in group settings.
• Legacy burdens from ancestors can impact current generations.
• Cultural trauma needs to be addressed for healing to occur.
• Time alone does not heal wounds; action is required.
• We must both confront experiences of victimization and hold ourselves accountable for the harm we cause.
• Healing requires acknowledging the complexity of human nature.
• Collective healing can lead to societal transformation.

About this week's guests:

Thomas Hübl, PhD, is a renowned teacher, author, and international facilitator who works within the complexity of systems and cultural change, integrating modern science with the insights of humanity’s wisdom traditions. Since the early 2000s, he has led large-scale events and courses on collective trauma. He is the author of Healing Collective Trauma and Attuned, a coach for executives and leaders, and a visiting scholar at the Wyss Institute at Harvard. He is the co-founder of the NGOs the Pocket Project and Global Restoration Institute, which facilitate dialogue around collective trauma, conflict resolution, and collective healing for organizations and governments worldwide.

Richard C. Schwartz, PhD, is the creator of Internal Family Systems, a highly effective, evidence-based therapeutic model that de-pathologizes the multi-part personality. His IFS Institute offers training for professionals and the general public. He is currently on the faculty of

Harvard Medical School, and has published five books, including No Bad Parts: Healing Trauma and Restoring Wholeness with the Internal Family Systems Model. Dick lives with his wife Jeanne near Chicago, close to his three daughters and his growing number of grandchildren.

Resources from this episode:

Find Thomas and Dick's new book, Releasing Our Burdens here.

Thomas Hubl's website is found here.

Dick Schwartz's website is found here.

Tamala Floyd's book, Listening When Parts Speak, which was referenced in this episode, can be found here.

Additional Resources:

If you're a therapist ready to take a break from holding space for your clients, family and friends so you can experience deep rest and restoration and heal in community, go here to learn about my upcoming retreat in Tulum, Mexico! 

Trauma therapists - Trauma Therapist Network is now accepting new members! Save 30% on your first month of membership using code TTNSAVE30 before January 1, 2026! Go here for all the details on our new membership structure and apply now!

Are you a helping professional who wants to learn more about the Safe + Sound Protocol (SSP)? On behalf of our friends at Unyte Health, we are pleased to share this Trauma Recovery Toolkit, a free resource aimed to support you as you work with clients who present with trauma and nervous system dysregulation. Download the toolkit and access an exclusive discount code for the SSP training! 

Therapists and mental health professionals: I created a FREE video to help you feel more confident in supporting survivors of sexual violence in an embodied and trauma sensitive manner. Check it out here! My course is now available, and can be accessed from this link.

 

Watch this episode on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@TherapyChatPodcast

Therapists, visit the new For Therapists page on the Trauma Therapist Network website to learn about my upcoming retreat, put your name on the waitlist for TTN membership, find discounts on CE trainings, purchase my course, schedule a clinical consultation, access recommended resources and more. 

Find a trauma therapist near you via findtraumatherapy.com! We believe that trauma is real, healing is possible and help is available at Trauma Therapist Network. 

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Podcast Produced by Vaudeo Productions: https://vaudeoproductions.com

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