The Importance of Persuasion

Sean Illing speaks with Matthew Jones, historian of science and technology, and co-author (with data scientist Chris Wiggins) of the new book How Data Happened. They discuss the surprisingly long history of data from the 18th century to today, in service of explaining how we wound up in a world where our personal information is mined by giant corporations for profit. They talk about how the allure of measurement and precision spread from astronomy to the social sciences, why advertising became so bound to the operation of the internet, and how we can imagine a more democratic future for us and our data, given the unprecedented power of today's tech companies.

Host: Sean Illing (@seanilling), host, The Gray Area

Guest: Matthew L. Jones (@nescioquid), author; James R. Barker Professor of Contemporary Civilization, Columbia University

References: 

• How Data Happened: A History from the Age of Reason to the Age of Algorithms by Chris Wiggins and Matthew L. Jones (W.W. Norton; 2023)
• "How Alan Turing Cracked The Enigma Code" (Imperial War Museum)
• Manufacturing Consent: The Political Economy of the Mass media by Edward S. Herman and Noam Chomsky (1988)
• "The manipulation of the American mind: Edward Bernays and the birth of public relations" by Richard Gunderman (The Conversation; July 9, 2015)
• On Herbert Simon (The Economist; Mar. 20, 2009)
• The Age of Surveillance Capitalism by Shoshana Zuboff (Profile; 2019)
• Jeffrey Hammerbacher quoted in "This Tech Bubble Is Different" by Ashlee Vance (Bloomberg Businessweek; Apr. 14, 2011)

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This episode was made by: 

• Producer: Erikk Geannikis
• Engineers: Patrick Boyd & Brandon McFarland

Editorial Director, Vox Talk: A.M. Hall

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