For me, it's about the process. I'm just constantly thinking about how to get better at the things that I do Right, my role as a teacher here at Vanderbilt is not to teach students what to think But it's how to think then you choose what to think about. And so for me that the success I feel is when I'm presented with a really thorny problem  I have no idea about how to solve it Most of the consulting work I do I have no know about the business or about the product.