Early DB pension: take lump sum or keep deferred?

It's episode 600 of the podcast, not that we're doing much to mark that milestone! We have some excellent questions today, taking in retirement planning, getting a mortgage if you have a new business and how flexible ISAs work!

Shownotes: https://meaningfulmoney.tv/QA35

02:43 Question 1

Hi Pete,

I'm a single household, due to pay my mortgage off in my early 50's….I have very little savings and pensions are everywhere and been 'balanced fund choices' as I either do self employed work or fixed term contracts. I'm really concerned I won't have 'enough' to retire. Where do I start to know how much I need? I don't have an extreme fancy lifestyle but want to live comfortably with running a car, having a nice home and having a holiday every few years. I would also like to help my siblings out if possible when they need it.

Also for your business…..have you thought of making it an 'employee owned trust' in the future? This could be a good option if you don't want it swallowed up by larger organisations and want to keep a people focussed culture.

Thanks, Anna

12:57 Question 2

Hi Pete and Roger Recently discovered the podcast and it's been really helpful in getting my thoughts straight about future planning - thank you! My job gives me a DB pension that as it stands will give me £4617 per year at 67 - for every year I work that will go up by one 54th of my salary, (£57k) so £1055 annually if I stay at the same grade. Increased by cpi plus 1.5% annually at the moment; and by CPI only once in payment. I can exchange part of this for a lump sum when I take it but that's a decision for another day! I'm projected for full SP at 67 after another 2 years contributing. I have £30k in a pensionbee that I'm adding to £100 a month, and after listening to the podcast I have started an AJ Bell SIPP (vanguard lifestrategy 60% equity) which I'm adding £200 a month to. Also working on the cash ladder/emergency fund - currently just £5k in a cash ISA I am hoping to get this up as much as possible. After overpaying mortgage and contributing to PensionBee/SIPP I can save £200 in a good month. I am aiming to retire as soon as I possibly can after 60, when the kids will all be in their 20s. I am sure this seems impossible but might as well aim high!!! So my priority is to build for the years between 60 and 67. And leave something for the kids, eventually! So…my question!! I have an old tiny deferred DB pension that I can take at 60, £3461 lump plus £1153 per annum (no option to take either a smaller or larger lump sum). I can't trivially commute this due to the rules of the scheme. As it's deferred there are no other benefits eg death in service. Or, I can take this now (age 53) with a reduction for early payment so it would be worth £3076 lump and £869 per annum. The pension increases each year by CPI while deferred and also when it's in payment. Does it make sense to take now, and put lump and monthly payment into either mortgage, or SIPP, or cash ISA? And if so which - SIPP gets me extra 25% from the gov as it's under pension recycling amount? But £3k off my mortgage now might be better. Cant get my head around the maths of this...but my gut feel is it would be working harder for me in my hand despite the fact I'd be taxed on the annual amount? I'd make sure that with my work and personal contributions I stay in 20% tax band and reclaim from HMRC when I do my tax return. Sarah

19:39 Question 3

Hi Pete and Roger, great show and love the new format to allow listeners to ask lots of questions.

My question is around pension inheritance. When a person dies and passes a DC pension to a spouse or child, does the inheritance remain in the pension wrapper when it passes on or does it lose its pension wrapper status which allows the person inheriting to use the cash as they want without the pension restrictions?

Many thanks, Kavi

26:04 Question 4

Hi Pete

I've been watching your videos and listening to your podcasts for about two years now and I'll start by thanking you (and the youthful Mr Weeks) for the public service you provide outside your paying work. I have what I think is a simple question, but I don't seem to be able to find a definitive answer on-line.

I retired about this time two years ago at the age of 62 so I'm 64 now. I have a DC pension in the form of a SIPP which is currently worth a little more than £600k. I also have a similar amount in savings (some in cash, some in an S&S ISA). I live on a combination of the income provided by the cash and the S&S ISA, plus a series of small UFPLSs taken roughly quarterly from my SIPP throughout the tax year. At this stage the SIPP withdrawals are relatively modest (totalling maybe 12k a year, of which of course 3k is tax free). My intention is to continue doing the UFPLSs at roughly the same rate, possibly increasing a little as a result of inflation. State pension will add another 12k or so to my annual income in 3 years so that will likely reduce the need to increase my SIPP withdrawals for a while. My SIPP is currently growing faster than my rate of withdrawal.

I understand that the maximum tax free cash I can have out of my pension in my lifetime (under current legislation) is £268,275 and obviously at my current withdrawal rate, I'm not getting to that total anytime soon. However if I've understood the rules correctly (and I may not have), I think my ability to have tax free cash once I reach the age of 75 goes away. If that's true, presumably I need to crystallise my SIPP pot just before I reach age 75, taking a quarter of it or my remaining LSA (whichever is smaller) as a tax free lump sum, at which point the remainder turns into an entirely taxable (crystallised) draw down pot? Alternatively, have I completely misunderstood what happens at age 75 and I can continue to do UFPLSs (with 25% tax free) until the cows come home, or I reach the LSA, whichever is sooner?

I don't think it's relevant to my question above but just for background, I have a wife who inherits everything if she survives me, or a few nieces and nephews and charities that benefit if she doesn't. We have no children of our own.

Keep up the good work gentlemen.

Regards, Robert

31:05 Question 5

Hi Pete

My son, who has never been a saver (apart from workplace pension) and never seems to have any spare money (single dad, renter) is in the process of going self employed with a colleague. If all goes well, he has a chance to make a reasonable income, not be hand to mouth and periodically take lump sums as a company director. E. G £5k to £10k starting in a couple of years.

My question is not about the viability of the business but this business will open up the prospect of my mid 30's son, David, owning a house while I am alive. As in, building up a deposit as dividends are paid. It may take several years and then, I assume, he would have to go through the pain of a self employed mortgage. An area that I know nothing about.

In effect, he is just starting out, but we would be really interested in your thoughts about the longer term aim of buying a house.

Many thanks again for your wonderful books and podcasts Helen

37:55 Question 6

Hi Pete & Roger, I continue to recommend your podcast to others. Please keep up the excellent work. My question is on the process of using flexible Cash ISAs. I cannot find any worked examples online and a few IFAs I have approached suggested kicking back the question to the ISA provider but I would appreciate your thoughts.

My wife and I have £200k in flexible cash isas. We plan on using these funds for a house purchase. Should I reduce the balance to zero, can I top the ISA back up to the full £200k provided the money goes in and out of a 'flexible' cash isa (and is within the same tax year)? I would be in a position to do this following the sale of some investment property..

And the second part of the question would be can the money move freely between a stocks and shares isa and a flexible cash isa eg £200k in a flexible cash isa moved into a stocks and shares isa > then back to the flexible cash isa.

We are both higher-rate tax payers and I won't drop a tax bracket in retirement so I feel the ISAs are the most useful savings bucket we hold.

Take care and all the best. Stuart