I find most people, those moments of suffering deepen them, spiritualize them. The people who've been through deep suffering, it sort of breaks the ego and they are less self obsessed. It's very hard to impose institutions that require high trust onto societies that have low trust. I'm not sure we have that choice. Next question. You mentioned that you're a cultural determinist. And so looking at, for example, North and South Korea or 20, 30 years ago, Hong Kong, China, it seems to me that there is a difference combined with the fact that there is this what's called the deep roots literature and economics.

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