A couple of days after I interviewed George Saunders for the first episode of this podcast, I caught up on some of his recent posts on Story Club, his writing-focused Substack. In “A Lost Speech, Found,” he wrote about rediscovering the script for a graduation speech he had given many years ago. The speech would earn him a reputation as “The Kindness Guy.”
“If the question ‘How should I live’ can be answered: ‘Live so as to minimize your regrets,’” he had said in that speech, “then I have to tell you: What you actually regret, when you’re older, is very simple: You regret the times you could have been kind, and weren’t.”
Saunders, one of the world’s greatest short story writers and winner of the 2017 Booker Prize for his first novel, Lincoln in the Bardo, was certainly kind to me. We sat together at a lunch table under a tree in a Santa Monica park for an hour and half. George patiently answered my questions about how to live a good life as a writer when so many social and economic forces make it so complicated. We talked about modes of thinking and how to negotiate with one’s ego, and how he writes to tame his “monkey brain.” We talked about the trope of the starving artist, and what it takes to make a living as a modern-day writer. And we talked about the corrosive effects of social media, which in so many cases encourages and rewards the opposite of kindness.
I can’t think of a better first guest for this podcast than The Kindness Guy. After the interview, George texted me to say, “Feel free to edit out any stupidity.” I couldn’t find any.
Show notes
*Story Club with George Saunders
*Liberation Day: Stories, A Swim in a Pond in the Rain, Tenth of December: Stories, and Lincoln in the Bardo
*Reporting on Trump rallies
*[5:15] Reading comments and reviews
*[8:07] Artistic pride and ambition
*[11:25] The social media self
*[16:13] Becoming a short story writer
*[21:00] Life at 60
*[27:55] Online personas and the act of writing
*[37:57] The craft of story
*[46:48] Story Club on Substack
*[50:10] Juggling writing and life
*[55:04] On Liberation Day
*[1:00:39] Trying to be happy
The Active Voice is a new podcast hosted by Hamish McKenzie, featuring weekly conversations with writers about how the internet is affecting the way they live and write. It is edited and produced by Hanne Winarsky, with content production by Hannah Ray and production support by Bailey Richardson. All artwork is by Joro Chen, and music is by Phelps & Munro.
This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit
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