Richard Pencer, a Kid From Texas

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i grew up in texas, i think my mam as conducted of a barand state opera. I've often been to a bavarian state opera. So vis es to me a strange twist in his tail. Now he's in a kind of repentant mode and is living a relatively quiet life in montana. But the simple view of how people get to the bad ideas that they have turns out to be complicated almost every time when you talk to people like him.

Graeme Wood is a staff writer for The Atlantic and a lecturer in political science at Yale University. He is the author of The Way of the Strangers: Encounters with the Islamic State.

In this week’s conversation, Yascha Mounk and Graeme Wood discuss why the January 6th insurrection does not resemble other coups; his experience interviewing Mohammed bin Salman and being Richard Spencer's middle school lab partner; and the need for general interest journalists whose curiosity is not constrained by their identity.

This transcript has been condensed and lightly edited for clarity.

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