Yeah, I mean, it's I think I have multiple opinions about it one is Anything that is not connected to the success of the business is not Focus that is is not is not focused that is important Which is quite radical, right? Because if you think about a decision and then think about its relevancy in terms of is that something that? Significantly impacts the success of my business or not then that's quite a Rational non-emotional way of looking at it, right? But I think it is probably what I would define as as startup as focus in the startup world Um because obviously as a founder, right? I mean you have constantly new ideas in your mind And you are constantly thinking about what's next But I think when when it comes to staying focused, you know I do believe that it's super important to be to make sure that Eventually you're still going into one direction and not multiple at the same time and one direction and kind of that direction you should define and with every decision and every Thing and kind of every task that you're working on you want to make sure that it eventually goes into that one direction that you've defined So to give you an example when the direction is hey, you know, I don't know. I want you know I want x amount of projects Until the end of the year then that's a very clear goal that you have And to stay focused I would then ask myself with everything I do How How much relevancy has that in order to achieve what what my direction is, you know That's that's I guess what I would how I would define it But I think it's easier than than it like easier to talk about it than it is actually in reality, right? Because then my coach calls me and tells me hey from last year there's an invoice missing Right and then that takes, you know a few hours to like figure it out and then you lose focus So but it's still an important it's still an important topic I think it's more about how about the if you look at one day and all your tasks that task that you have on that day How many of those tasks are connected to your focus? And if I guess if that's above 70 or 80 percent then you're still, you know relative a relatively focused person Yeah, what what's your take?

I think I think it's so so the reason I find this I find this topic so interesting is Of course with the work that we do at sonic at at blossom and also with with a quick coffee investments What we see On a weekly basis is we see so many founders and so many teams executing right and and we you get this You get the sneak peek behind the scenes of a number of different startups And of course we talk to new companies every single week And so you get this exposure to a lot of companies and and whether they actually have focus or not And I think if I had to define it I would say that focus is doing much less than you think you can do Because for me the interesting learning is that whenever I've thought in the past whenever I've kind of looked back And I thought I had focus and I and or I got I got the company or the project that we were working on To focus what I realized a little bit later is that we could have focused even more right? So it's really this idea of you you you basically take a list Of prioritizing them the 10 most important things you do And you then look at this list and you think oh well These are the things that have to be our focus for the next half year And then you take this list and you cross off seven Right and then you have like the three that you actually need to focus on and I think so that's And it's so interesting because as a startup founder and as a team As as you just said, there is this incredible amount of of distraction that's coming you away There is there's people that tell you to build certain features. There's the investors that you have Which which which have expectations and they have ideas and they send you a feedback email about your product and now you're thinking Oh wow, this is the feature that I need to build there is competition Which is an incredible factor of focus right? So a lot of founding teams look at competition and they they think that you know, this is something that we need to focus on And so what happens so quickly is that your your company or your project or your team it completely Loses focus and now then when I come in and I work with a new founding team or we have a new project at sonic It's so interesting to see because now you have this external perspective and yet the more that you learn about the company the more you realize Oh my god. They are doing so many things at the same time And so for me the core learning is You're nearly always think that you are already focused until you realize that you can be so much more focused Right. So if I don't know if that makes sense, but that that's kind of how it feels to me You can always be more focused and usually you're doing too much than you actually can do

Something that I've realized for myself is that Focus requires a certain Systematic approach which helps a lot which basically means I think we've touched upon this But you know a few days ago or so when we talked about Because there are so many tasks constantly popping up you want to make sure that you have some sort of a Some sort of a task or system that allows you to structure your incoming tasks in order to maintain And stay focused. So what that means is I Was talking to a founder recently and he basically told me that whenever a new idea Comes into his mind. The first thing he does is he puts it instantly into a list And he doesn't start working on it He puts it into the list so it's out of his mind and then he leaves it there And was he what he does once a day is revisit the list and look at what you've mentioned Am I still focusing on the three most important things? And is that a tap is that a topic or task that you know perfectly fits to what I Would I would laugh to focus on? And that's something that I'm also now trying to apply more and more because what I used to do is whenever I had a new idea I would simply be like, okay, let's quickly do it. You know, like I'm just gonna get rid of it I'm just gonna make it done and then that's it But what that led to was me being working on so many multiple things that I kind of lost focus And they thought right so that's that that helped me a lot like figuring out a system For me to do it and I'm using simple to do app now Which is basically think it's called it's called things Which is a great iOS app for everyone who's who's looking for new app or tool and whenever there's a new topic coming up I'll just put it in there and then once a day usually in the morning I go through my list and you know re-prioritize and see whether I'm still on track regarding my my three topics So that's that's the one but then obviously the other question comes up Which is what is it founders should I actually focus on right now? We've talked about You know the the problem of so many things always coming up popping up spontaneous things What what are I mean gonna throw that to you? But what do you think are some of the things that founders should really focus on?

So I think the I think that the super important point here is and and actually You know people can go back and listen back in one of the episodes We talked about that Understanding you know the mindset and the and the challenge around product market fit and of course I think in a startup context Everything starts with a true understanding of where your company is right? So you there is no way that you can focus on the right things if you don't know where you are right now And so for everyone working as a founder or working in a startup I would always encourage them first talk to people talk to experienced founders to investors and understand What where is your company right now? Do you have product market fit? Do you not have product market fit? Do you have a great company culture? What can you do about that? And I think if you have understood where you are as a startup That's then when you can take the next step and you can actually learn from people who have been through the journey To understand what really matters and so for example If you are like many startups probably most 90 percent in the pre-product market fit phase And you haven't found product market fit yet Then there aren't that many things that you need to focus on you can automatically say There's only two things that are going to be relevant for you And that's working towards product market fit and building a great team culture team culture is incredibly important We've talked about this on the show, you know for many many times and it's so incredibly important to Build the great team culture from the very beginning and you need to find product market fit And so the moment you understand where you are and then you define these very few goals And I can say there is not more than that you have to find product market fit and you have to build a strong culture There's not more that you need to do Then you can ask yourself and I actually like to do this when we when we consider an investment I actually like to talk with founders and I asked them You know would you share one week of your calendar with me And I look at the things that you have in your calendar and I will know whether you're focused or not You know because because the way that you spend your time you can immediately see Are you working on these two things as a pre-product market fit founder or not? And if you're if you're not if you're spending two days on something else, you're not focused And so I think That's basically the way that you know, you can go about this process And again, you have to be I think you have to be rigorous You have to ask for every single thing that might enter your agenda Will this take me to find product market fit or will this help me build a great culture? And if you're not sure Then probably the answer is either no Or you want to talk to someone experience and you want to ask them look, you know We are looking for product market fit. Should I be doing this? And and and it can help you, you know get to a focused level So that's that's how I would how I would you know think about it. And the last point I'll make is you know The moment that you that you create focus real focus where you have very few things that you're working on in the company You are creating so much efficiency Speed of iteration in your business that you will outpace every single other company because most companies are incredibly distracted They're doing way too many things that they can for a small team And so I think it's it's an incredible asset, but it's something that you need to invest time into As well, that's that's really how I see it Yeah

Yeah, I really like where you come from in a way that you say hey It's really about understanding where you are at first of first of all Which is something I think a lot of people don't do right because they constantly rush to the next to the next thing to the next challenge And I think even you know even myself I I have to admit that I think more obviously more about what's next instead of where am I where am I now and what has happened in the past Which fully helps and I totally agree which would fully help to better understand whether I'm still focused or not I honestly I Mean I like also the calendar example. I remember that you know, I actually we've done that in multiple times Talking to people about the calendar management, which is essentially a tool right that tells you whether a person's focused or not

Absolutely. I mean you you will you will see that immediately I think that you know looking back for example If I look, you know, we've been working together for such a long time I think that today you are much more focused than for example three years ago Right. So of course, I think that even that that's my impression That you know because because you have access to my calendar, right? Exactly exactly and and and I mean no no I mean the reality is you

know, I think it's it's if you're a creative person

It's actually quite difficult. I would imagine to stay focused because you have these ideas coming up and you actually need them So you have these things flying around and they come to you and here's an impression and there's an impression And you want to kind of keep it But I think this management that that you found for yourself Where you take these inputs and you kind of store them in a in a prioritized way It helps you to on the one side be creative But on the other side to stay focused on what really matters And honestly, I think the conversations that we have Aside from quick coffee or even on the show They also help because ultimately You know having this reflection from someone else who is going through the founder or the startup journey And reflecting back like okay, this was a topic that was really vital for us This is something we did and was completely useless This is something that founders and teams have to be doing on a on a constant basis To evaluate to have this mirror that can you know show you am I focused or not? You know and and you need to you need to have people give focus and give you feedback on on how you're spending your time This is incredibly incredibly valuable. Sometimes I sit down honestly Sometimes I sit down with with valorite or with one of my colleagues or with one of the co-founders And I show them my calendar and I just ask them Do you think that I should be doing these topics? You know and you get this external perspective of someone telling you like hey, why are you having this in your calendar? And you start asking oh wow, yeah, I didn't think about it this way You know just entered my calendar. Is it really necessary? You know and now you get into this mood where you're questioning How am I spending my time? And I think that's the only way that you can iterate yourself Towards true focus. Hmm.