“Why fly fourteen hours from New York to Johannesburg to see a South African version of Brooklyn? To me, the only reason to know what destinations are ‘hot’ is to avoid them.” —Seth Kugel

In this episode of Deviate, Rolf and Seth talk about how the travel industry both helps and hinders the travel experience, and how Seth first experienced travel when he was young (1:30); tourist desire, the “beaten path,” and the contradictions of what travelers seek in AirBnbs and related property-renting services (10:30); dealing with language barriers overseas, and social versus literal risks overseas (20:00); balancing general tourist advice versus nuanced insights as a travel writer, and the role new technologies play in travel decisions (27:00); and why it’s a good idea to avoid places that have been deemed “trendy,” and how to break out of the bad habits of travel (40:30).

Seth Kugel (@sethkugel) is a travel writer, freelance journalist, and host of the Amigo Gringo YouTube channel. He was the Frugal Traveler columnist for the New York Times from 2010 to 2016, and he is most recently the author of the book Rediscovering Travel: A Guide for the Globally Curious. For more on Seth, check out his website http://sethkugel.com/

Notable Links:

• The Vagabond’s Way, by Rolf Potts (travel book)
• Transnistria (breakaway part of Moldova)
• Nagorno-Karabakh (breakaway part of Azerbaijan)
• The World in a Selfie, by Marco D’Eramo (book)
• Principe Real (neighborhood in Lisbon)
• Wichita Vortex Sutra (poem by Allen Ginsberg)
• Nancy Mitford (English novelist)
• Barbarian Days, by William Finnegan (book)
• Arthur Frommer (guidebook writer)
• Bukittinggi (city in Sumatra)
• Malcolm X (American activist and traveler)
• Bangkok Post (English-language newspaper in Thailand)
• Hindustan Times (English-language newspaper in India)
• “Free Fallin’” (song by Tom Petty)
• Punta Cana (resort town in the Dominican Republic)
• “Driving Through the Heartland,” by Seth Kugel (article)
• Chicken Annie’s and Chicken Mary’s (Kansas restaurants)
• Red Queen’s race (metaphor about running to stand still)

The Deviate theme music comes from the title track of Cedar Van Tassel’s 2017 album Lumber.

Note: We don’t host a “comments” section, but we’re happy to hear your questions and insights via email, at deviate@rolfpotts.com.