All our manufacturing depends on coal, and the Chinese do most of it. We don't really know how to make steel or plastic without fossil fuels. The Swedes are developing a way of producing hydrogen but they think they're going to do it that way. It uses much more energy calorifically in the hydrogen which is going to be a very serious problem. So we'll see how that goes. But at some point it says, is this sensible? And that question is now on every frontier of the transition. Is this sensible? Right.

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