I think that's why we're doing the approach we're doing, which is we're innovating in new categories like every single stocks or yield boost, where we're able to bring completely new concepts to market, and we would prefer to own the new concepts, then rather trying to compete, you know, with existing ones where it's, you know, it not likely that we are going to have much success.

Yeah, totally makes sense. Your second biggest ETF sticks out now in this 2X world you've created as bar, the gold ETF. I remember interviewing you for my first book, The Institutional ETF Toolbox, available on Amazon at the World Gold Council. You were Mr. GLD, then you launched a lower fee version of gold called Bar. And you even call your company great on show. So you're like a gold guy, I think, at core. Bitcoin comes along. What's your take on that? Like, if you were talking to, I don't know, your uncle who was like, Hey, what should I do? I do want something that protects me from the devaluation of currencies. Should I go into gold or Bitcoin? What would you tell them?

Well, I think that, you know, one thing to also point out is that, you know, we were one of the first people to register a Bitcoin ETF. And it's an entrepreneurial story rather than a technical story. But when we were in the first thing of 2018, the SEC came around and said, nope, sorry, it's not going to happen. Because of the ETF experience that I had, I being in the market for a long, long time, I knew that, hey, this could go on for a number of years, almost certainly going to cost a huge amount of money. As a startup company at the time, just didn't have the resources to fight the battle on that. So I think from my perspective, I've always kind of viewed our job as we're somewhat agnostic to the underlying assets that we're invested in. Our job is to give people or provide products that people love. And if people want access to Bitcoin, it's our job to do that. If you want access to gold, it's our job to do that. So I personally don't own any Bitcoin. I don't have anything against it. It's just, I think for me, I've always sort of struggled with the fact that, you know, inherently there's no intrinsic value and it's different fundamentally from gold. And so coming from the gold background, I feel like, okay, there's a cost, you know, clearly I'm owning gold, there's cost to mining it, there's a cost to storing it, there's cost to ensuring it. There's a cost to transporting it. And I think that with Bitcoin, the thing that I always sort of struggle with is that once you've made up your mind, when you take something, any asset that has zero intrinsic value, once you make up your mind that the value is not zero, then it can be anything. So when look at the price, it's like, okay, it's $60 ,000. All right. It could be $1.

$60 ,500. It's whatever I can sell it for. Exactly. And - But is it the key to say anything about bar or gold? Well, just because some people wear it as jewelry, is that the argument? No,

I mean, it's a real thing that costs a lot of money to mine, to produce, to get the permitting. So, you know, there's a real kind of fundamental economic 101 principle around any kind of hard asset and has been, you know, for thousands of years. And again, people will, of course, go on about the amount of electricity and things to mind Bitcoin and the cost of the technology to do it. And I hear all of that. I think it's just that basic concept of, OK, if the intrinsic value is zero, once you've made up your mind that it's something other than zero, then it can be anything. Final

question. Favorite ETF ticker than any of your own? That

is a great question. I know this is this is not necessarily the most, you know, the most sort of unique or...

He's gonna give us something good here.

I can tell. It's kind of a tie, but I think that QQQ and SPY, one, the three -letter tickers are now kind of very rare. They denote something that's a lot older. But I think that while there's not necessarily anything clever about the symbols themselves, what's good about them as they've represented or become to be sort of like Coca -Cola of ETFs for that particular category. And that's cool. I think when, or the test of a great ETF is when people know the ticker more than they know the actual strategy. And so I've heard stories, just one particular one that made me laugh and why I thought of the cues. I was recently in Japan, just a few weeks ago. And I was talking to some investors there, including somebody from Invesco. And Invesco, of course, is the the issuer of the cues. And he said that, well, we have a lot of issues with brand recognition in Asia, because no one knows Invesco. They

know the cues though.

And they said that, yeah, you go to a meeting and the client will say, Oh, Invesco, we don't know who you are. And he said, Oh, okay, well, we got the cues. He said, Oh, I know the cues. And so they know the cues, but have no idea the company that represents it. I think that's a sign of when you made it as a ticker. If you have your ticker symbols, it's he's looking for.

It's more popular than you. We just know you're a product.

Exactly. All right. Well, Ryan, thanks for joining us on Trillions. Thank you so much. Absolute pleasure. Thanks for

listening to Trillions. Until next time, you can find us on the Bloomberg terminal, Bloomberg .com. We'll see you next time. else you'd like to listen. We'd love to hear from you. We're on Twitter. I'm at Joel Weber Show. He's at Eric Balchunas. This episode of Trillians was produced by Magnus Hendrickson. Bye!

How does Invesco QQQ rethink possibility? By rethinking access to innovation and the NASDAQ 100, let's rethink possibility. Invesco Distributors, Inc. The

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