At the beginning of this war, we were very clear that the U.S. would not get directly involved because we did not have an interest that rose to the level of a vital interest. And yet here we are eight or nine months later, and we've been going down the slippery slope. So your view then is basically we should extract and stop being so involved and essentially leave the future of Ukraine to whatever happens in the region. Well, no American president has ever asserted that the United States has a vital interest in Ukraine or any part of Ukraine. It's simply not even Biden himself at the beginning of the war made clear that we would not getting directly involved in the fighting. He

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