And I think it also it's like, there's this kind of the presumption that the way it works is like fair. You know, is an open is kind of a, it's just wrong at this point. That's these are not open fair markets when you actually dig in. Look at these contracts, right? When you actually look at the relationships between big retailers and big company, big producers or big distributors or big pharma and PBM. It's like, no one in their right mind would be like, well, this sounds fair. You know, this, that seems fair to me. So I totally agree with you. Yeah, exactly.

And if you had lots of, if we actually had lots of competition, if one retailer had a contract, it wouldn't really matter because you'd be like, I don't like that. I'm going to go over here as a producer or as a consumer, right? But if you only have a few retailers, then the, you know, basically those contracts become the law of the land and that locks out in your actual competition as a result. So yeah, I totally agree with that.

I think that's going to be probably one of the things I'm most interested, interested to see out of this six B into these different, you know, the FTC's results from these investigations. It's like, what's actually in these contracts because all this stuff is like hidden from us. I mean, I guess that we kind of know what what's going on. But to your point earlier, just the overtness of the just like rejection of Robinson Patmant to the point where they run their these everyone runs their businesses through contracts with ostensibly violations of Robinson Patmant in the contract. Like, I mean, I'm dealing with this with the pharma and the PBMs right now, but, you know, it'll be really interesting to see what the FTC says about what's in all the, you know, like what they what they found in all these contracts just because, you know, PBMs, for example, just such a black box industry and these contracts and these negotiations are such a black box and a lot of times I think about, well, when there's anti competitive conduct, it's kind of like soft power. You know, it's kind of like you getting your way by sort of bullying people in different ways and that's kind of often how like a Google or Facebook, they're always changing the rules on you. And so they're making it kind of this crazy game. But in the as if you're in the supply chain, but with these when it comes to Robinson Patmant, they're just they're just it's in the contract. Like the things that they're getting the benefits that they're getting, they're paying for something and the benefit they're getting is is is is is I think in the in the contract. And so, anyway, to the extent that they actually start enforcing the law, it will really have a big profound impact on those contracts, I would imagine, and how how that contracting process works. And as a result, the entire way the industry works, which is governed by those contracts to your point. Do you think that's a am I crazy to think of that as as as what might be interesting about how this all plays out.

Yeah, I mean, I love the point about bringing some some daylight to what's going on, you know, in the contracts across a lot of different industries as well. PBMs, especially, I mean, they get away with what they get away with, you know, and the and the manufacturer pharmaceutical manufacturers, because of this lack of transparency, in large part. And so, I mean, it would be a huge public service, the more that the FTC and, you know, begins to make some of those through these studies, some of those terms and details of how all of this works public. You know, it would be really great brings some daylight to those industries and start to shift things. But I think you're right, like a lot of it is, you know, it exists in these in these relationships and through these contracts that that not only does it exist in these relationships and through these contracts that that none of us get to see.

Well, Stacy, as always, I mean, we covered a ton of ground here. This was one of my, one of the most interesting I learned conversations I learned so much here. I can't wait to, you know, keep following this and stay in touch with you. And I can't thank you enough for doing this. This is really awesome. And I really appreciate it.

Thanks, Teddy. I am such a big fan of the reporting that Capital Forum does, and it's always, it's just a pleasure to talk with you. So appreciate it too. Thanks for

joining us for this episode of Second Request. Second Request is powered by the Capital Forum. For more information, connect with us at thecapitalform.com or follow us on Twitter at Capital underscore forum.