Deep Time, Ancestors, and Maori Perspectives

Ep. 211 (Part 1 of 2) | Zaya and Maurizio Benazzo are not only the founders of the longstanding and highly regarded Science & Nonduality Conference (SAND), but also brilliant filmmakers, producing stunning documentaries about the injustice and suffering occurring in Palestine and elsewhere, as well as films that feature the eternal wisdom of elders from Indigenous communities around the world. Zaya and Maurizio are clearly passionate about their work, and co-host Roger Walsh points out they do a beautiful job of intertwining the personal, professional, and spiritual into an offering that meets the needs of our time. As Maurizio says, “There is no spiritual work. Period. Everything is spiritual work! It’s life.”

In Part 1 of this episode, lively and inspired, Zaya and Maurizio share what they’ve learned about life, spirituality, trauma, healing, guidance, and the deep-time perspective of the Maori. They relate the trajectory of SAND’s evolution from featuring male-dominated nondual teachings to include an understanding of trauma, somatic healing, feminine, earth-oriented teachings, and Indigenous wisdom. “Healing never ends; it’s a lifelong journey—there’s no modern solution that will ‘fix’ you,” Zaya tells us. Also, “We are constantly being guided if we just listen.”

In Part 2, Zaya and Maurizio describe the making of their 2021 documentary about the tragic mistreatment of Palestinians in the West Bank, a beautiful, heartbreaking film called Where Olive Trees Weep. Also their film The Eternal Song, an ongoing project to bring forth Indigenous teachings, so valuable and timely for us now in our chaotic, disconnected world. This whole conversation is thought provoking, delightful, profound, paradigm shifting, and inspiring all at once. Recorded October 16, 2025.

“There is no spiritual work without trauma work.”

Topics & Time Stamps – Part 1

• Introducing Zaya & Maurizio Benazzo, documentary filmmakers & founders of the Science & Nonduality Conference (SAND) (00:57)
• Tracing the trajectory of Zaya & Maurizio’s work, beginning in India (02:24)
• What was Nisargadatta Maharaj’s legacy? (03:47)
• Putting science and mystics together: the seed that created SAND (06:35)
• How SAND evolved from male-dominated nondual teachings to include the body, an understanding of trauma, and female & Indigenous teachers (08:18)
• Feminizing spiritual teachings: women mystics & their connection with the Earth (12:38)
• SAND focuses on educating the audience to be open, ask good questions, rather than uplifting particular teachers (16:09)
• How the film The Wisdom of Trauma with Gabor Maté went viral (20:08)
• All of life is spiritual work, and there’s no spiritual work without trauma work, but spiritual bypassing was very real at SAND (24:13)
• With Maté’s understanding about trauma, people find they’re not alone and they don’t need to “fix” the pain (26:39)
• Healing is a lifelong journey; trauma is systemic and intergenerational (32:08)
• The deep-time perspective and how the Maori trace their ancestors back to the stars (33:22)
• Indigenous teachers say we heal backwards and we heal forwards; nothing is individual, we are all interconnected (34:54)
• Now is the time for the Long Dark, not the time for the search for the light (38:52)
• We are all here for a purpose, and we are constantly being guided if we just listen (42:31)
• The suffering of today’s youth, isolated and without elders (45:00)

Resources & References – Part 1

• Zaya & Maurizio Benazzo, founders of the Science & Nonduality Conference
• Zaya & Maurizio’s first movie together: The Rays of the Absolute: The Legacy of Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj
• Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj, I Am That
• Dr. Gabor Maté, The Myth of Normal: Trauma, Illness, and Healing in a Toxic Culture
• The A. H. Almaas Wisdom Series (on the Deep Transformation podcast)
• The Wisdom of Trauma featuring Gabor Maté, produced by Zaya & Maurizio Benazzo
• Mauri: The Vital Essence of All Beings, produced by Zaya & Maurizio Benazzo
• Francis Weller: The Long Dark (YouTube video)
• Arnold Toynbee, A Study of History (the cycle of withdrawal and return)
• Where Olive Trees Weep, produced by Zaya & Maurizio Benazzo

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Maurizio and Zaya Benazzo merged their lifelong passions for science and mysticism when they met in 2007, and their first project together was filming the documentary Rays of the Absolute on the life and teachings of Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj. This project sparked their next level of creation and collaboration: SAND, a global community inspired by the timeless wisdom traditions, informed by modern science, and grounded in direct experience. Together they have produced and directed several award-winning documentaries including The Wisdom of Trauma, The Art of Life, Rays of the Absolute, Where Olive Trees Weep, Mauri, and If an Owl Calls Your Name. 

Zaya and Maurizio live, work, and play on the unceded ancestral lands of the Coast Miwok and Southern Pomo people, in Sebastopol, California.

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Podcast produced by Vanessa Santos and Show Notes by Heidi Mitchell