The spiritual harm and abuse scale for a clinical screener is one of the first sort of clinical tools to actually try to measure spiritual harm. And I thought well dan's both experience as a researcher and a therapist Would make for a great conversation partner on this topic of spiritual abuse. So that's uh really wonderful and so glad you're here and I really enjoyed my time On that you have permission podcast so recommend that to folks as well But dan I think is a great conversation Partner on this topic He is a getting his phd in counseling psychology and is a practicing therapistUh, and he published in may of 2022 in the journal of scientific study of religion Uh, what I think is one

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