Oh my. I can’t tell you how moving I found this interview. That doesn’t mean it’s a weepy one - sometimes, the most powerful exchanges are the ones where you witness the sheer strength it takes someone *no*t to cry.

Dame Arlene Phillips is defined by her strength: strength of mind and of body (at 80, she’s still hard at work as a hit choreographer). You’ll know her as an internationally celebrated jazz and musical theatre legend, who has worked on some of the biggest-selling musicals in West End and Broadway theatre, as well as a number of blockbuster movies. But you might not know she lost her mum to leukaemia when she was just 15, had a challenging upbringing and had her second baby when she was 47 years old (she thought the pregnancy symptoms were signs of perimenopause).

Then in 2008, Dame Arlene was unceremoniously dropped as a judge from Strictly Come Dancing amid accusations of ageism. She only found out when it was reported on the next day’s radio news. We talk frankly about how this affected her - and how she’s never had an apology from the BBC. We also discuss Dame Arlene’s failure to become a ballerina and how this made her feel about her body, her fear of flying and her past inability to stand up for herself.

WHAT. A. WOMAN.

As always, I’d LOVE to hear about your failures. Every week, my guest and I choose a selection to read out and answer on our special subscription offering, Failing with Friends. We’ll endeavour to give you advice, wisdom, some laughs and much, much more.

Have something to share of your own? I'd love to hear from you! Click here to get in touch: howtofailpod.com

Production & Post Production Manager: Lily Hambly

Studio and Mix Engineer: Gulliver Tickell and Josh Gibbs

Producer: Hannah Talbot

Executive Producer: Carly Maile

How to Fail is an Elizabeth Day and Sony Music Entertainment Production.

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