In his first extensive interview since he stepped down as the Special Assistant to the President for Technology and Competition Policy on the National Economic Council, Tim Wu shares what he learned in the West Wing. We find out who holds most sway with the President, how Lina Khan undid any perception that there is any antitrust exception for “nice guys,” and get Wu’s predictions on lawsuits against Google, Facebook, Amazon and Microsoft. Also: Kara presses him on why Biden — who campaigned on getting rid of Section 230 and hinted at breaking up Big Tech — hasn’t been able to make much headway when it comes to regulating Silicon Valley.

Before the interview, Kara and Nayeema look at exits, from Jacinda Ardern, the former prime minister of New Zealand, to Netflix co-founder Reed Hastings. And among all the exits, they also discuss one possible return: Meta’s looming decision regarding Donald Trump’s Facebook account.

You can find Kara and Nayeema on Twitter at @karaswisher and @nayeema.

Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices