“I think the next stage of American capitalism includes co-opetition." - Dutch Rojas
On the last episode of Self-Funded with Spencer in 2025, Dutch Rojas joins the show to expose the financial "arbitrage" that he believes is destroying independent medical practices in America. Dutch explains how current CMS incentives allow hospitals to buy independent clinics and immediately charge 165% more for the exact same services, which is a practice that is crushing employers and patients alike.
In this episode, Dutch lays out his bold vision for "Co-opetition”, a new playbook where independent practices, manufacturers, and even churches band together to leverage their collective buying power. We discuss why the traditional "HR-led" model of buying benefits is failing, why CFOs need to take the wheel, and his dream of creating a true "Healthcare Commodities Exchange" to normalize pricing.
We also get personal about his journey from the Netherlands to the U.S., the importance of social media for building influence in DC, and why he believes the next 10 years will be defined by those who can master media.
Tune in for a fascinating look at the future of independent medicine.
Chapters:
(00:00:00) What is "Co-opetition" in Healthcare?
(00:01:00) How Hospital Arbitrage Kills Private Practices
(00:06:40) Why Independent Doctors Don't Work Together (Yet)
(00:14:00) The 165% Markup
(00:29:40) The Dream of a Healthcare Commodities Exchange
(00:41:00) Why HR Shouldn't Make Healthcare Decisions
(00:49:00) Aggregating Buying Power: Churches & Manufacturers
(00:57:00) The 4-Stage Plan to Fix Healthcare
Key Links for Social:
@SelfFunded on YouTube for video versions of the podcast and much more - https://www.youtube.com/@SelfFunded
Listen/watch on Spotify - https://open.spotify.com/show/1TjmrMrkIj0qSmlwAIevKA?si=068a389925474f02
Listen on Apple Podcasts - https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/self-funded-with-spencer/id1566182286
Follow Spencer on LinkedIn - https://www.linkedin.com/in/spencer-smith-self-funded/
Follow Spencer on Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/selffundedwithspencer/
