Intro

Welcome to FP&A Tomorrow, where we discuss financial planning and analysis, examining its current state and future prospects, with your host Paul Barnhurst.

In today’s episode, Paul Barnhurst is joined by Ken Lane, to discuss what makes great FP&A, the challenges and opportunities in mid-market companies, and the impact of technology and AI on finance.

Ken, a seasoned financial controller and FP&A professioal from Ontario, provides valuable guidance about the importance of collaboration, the role of AI and technology, and why he feels mid-market companies allow you to make a bigger difference in the work you are doing.

Here is a summary of the key points from the discussion:

• Great FP&A is about collaboration across all entities within a business. Understanding and addressing the bottlenecks in each area is crucial for driving meaningful business change.

• Discussion on the necessity for mid-market companies to upgrade their legacy systems to leverage the full value of future FP&A. He highlights the challenges and the importance of investing in technology to streamline data and improve decision-making.

• The episode delves into the ongoing supply chain issues post-COVID. Ken explains how these challenges necessitate holding more inventory, which impacts cash flow and requires careful management of cash conversion cycles.

• The discussion highlights how Gen Z's expectations for efficient and advanced systems are pushing companies to invest in better technology. This shift is essential for retaining top talent and staying competitive in the market.
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• Ken stresses the importance of understanding the broader picture of the business and continuously learning. Whether it's through different industries or new technologies, staying adaptable and informed is key to succeeding in FP&A.

Quotes:

Here are a few relevant quotes from the episode 

• "A lot of mid-market companies still have a lot of legacy systems or multiple legacy systems within a business, and they're going to need to upgrade and change those to get the full value of the future of FP&A.”
• 
  
• “When I'm in mid-market companies, I feel like that when you're helping out or you're driving decision-making, you see that impact on the bottom line. When I was with large companies I would see a strategy that would come down from the corporate office, but didn't understand how what I did fed into that strategy.”

Follow Ken:

LinkedIn - https://www.linkedin.com/in/kennethlane/

Website - https://smoothaccounting.ca/

Follow Paul:

Website - https://www.thefpandaguy.com 

LinkedIn - https://www.linkedin.com/in/thefpandaguy

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In today's episode:

[00:00] - Introduction

[00:47] - Guest Introduction

[02:01] - Anticipating Changes in FP&A

[02:40] - The Challenge of Legacy Systems

[03:35] - Guest’s Career Journey

[06:51] - Impactful Mid-Market Examples

[08:52] - Attraction to Manufacturing

[09:57] - Key Metrics in Manufacturing

[12:12] - Transition to FP&A

[15:50] - Managing Technology on a Limited Budget

[17:47] - Choosing the Right ERP Partner

[20:19] - Real-Time Decision Making with AI

[23:02] - Investing in Tech to Retain Talent

[24:55] - Rapid Fire Session

[25:57] - Role-Level Headcount Planning

[27:10] - Importance of Clean Data

[29:20] - Get to Know the guest

[32:20] - Advice for Better Business Partnering

[32:55] - Conclusion and Contact Information

Full Show Transcript:  

Host: Paul Barnhurst:: Hello, everyone. Welcome to FP&A Tomorrow, where we delve into the world of financial planning and analysis, examining its current state and future prospects. I'm your host, Paul Barnhurst, guiding you through the evolving landscape of FP&A. Each week, we're joined by thought leaders, industry experts, and practitioners who share their insights and experiences helping us navigate today's complexities and tomorrow's uncertainties. Whether you're a seasoned professional or just starting your FP&A journey, this show has something for everyone. This week, I am thrilled to welcome to the show Ken Lane. Ken, welcome to the show.

Guest: Ken Lane:: Oh, thank you for having me, Paul.

Host: Paul Barnhurst:: Yes, excited to have you. So just a little bit of background about Ken and I'll allow him to introduce himself further in a few minutes. But he comes to us from Ontario, Canada. He is a financial controller. He spent most of his career either working as a controller or manager, finance, or accounting, and he spent most of it in the mid-market, in several different industries. So, Ken, we like to start the show with this question for all our guests? From your viewpoint, what does grade FP&A look like?

Guest: Ken Lane:: For me, the great FP&A is a collaboration with all the entities within your business. Because the goal of FP&A is to drive business change. So you need to understand the bottlenecks in each area. If those people feel heard, they'll buy into what you're delivering.

Host: Paul Barnhurst:: I would agree with that. So it's around collaboration and making sure the business feels heard.

Guest: Ken Lane:: Correct.

Host: Paul Barnhurst:: What are your thoughts? What do you expect it to look like in the next 3 to 5 years? Do you think what grade FP&A is going to change with everything that's going on with technology and other things?

Guest: Ken Lane:: I do, I think it will. I think in large companies it's going to change faster than in smaller mid-market companies. The reason is I think a lot of mid-market companies still have a lot of legacy systems or multiple legacy systems within a business, and they're going to need to upgrade and change those to get the full value of the future of FP&A.

Host: Paul Barnhurst:: We're not speaking from experience, having worked with a lot of mid-markets by chance, are we?

Guest: Ken Lane:: Not at all.

Host: Paul Barnhurst:: I'm sure you could tell me some data horror stories. That's probably what I should start off with. Tell me your worst data horror story. I keep that in mind for future episodes. Tell me a little bit about yourself and your background.

Guest: Ken Lane:: Yes. So I'm here in southern Ontario. Been in accounting now for 20-plus years. To be honest, went through school, came out with a computer science degree, and then fell into accounting and then worked my way up, worked with some great mentors, then went back and took some university courses for management, accounting, financial accounting, all those key things. But it never worked my way through to get licensed as a CPA. Then I've transitioned from working across a whole variety of industries, some of those interesting enough to progress and take a step up. Then even in some of those took a step back because a job or role had skills that maybe I didn't have yet. So went back in pay, went back maybe in leadership to eventually elevate myself later.

Host: Paul Barnhurst:: Got it. What led to accounting if you started with computer science? Maybe dig into that a little. I'm curious how the switch happened.

Guest: Ken Lane:: Sure. I got my first job with a finance organization, a financial banking organization, and they were looking for someone who both understood the business and understood IT. I fit that role. Growing up, my parents had multiple small businesses, and my mom always did the accounting, so I was always around it. So it wasn't brand new to me. I'd been around it. It comes naturally to me to a certain extent. So I'd seen it growing up using original ledger books writing it in pencil and putting everything in the ledger books and sawing all that, seeing all that. Then when I went to this finance institution, I did both for a while and then they opted, they felt that I gave them more value on the accounting side and then kept pushing me to progress and progress and progress. I just realized that I did enjoy it. Then started taking additional courses and doing everything to get certifications to move on.

Host: Paul Barnhurst:: So you grew up around it. They want someone on the business side, found you, liked it, and figured you'd get some more education in the area.

Guest: Ken Lane:: Correct.

Host: Paul Barnhurst:: Got it. So I know you spent pretty much your entire career working in the mid-market. Why? Why mid-market companies? What is it you like so much about them?

Guest: Ken Lane:: I like the fact that you get to. I feel like you make an impact. So when I'm in mid-market companies, I tend to find that most of those are still family-owned companies, maybe multi-generational companies as opposed to large ones. I did spend some time at some very large companies, but most of it was in the mid-market. I feel like that when you're helping out or you're driving decision-making, you see that impact on the bottom line. You see that impact on the family that helps them. When I was with large companies, sometimes I was I'd see a strategy that would come down from the corporate office, but didn't understand how what I did fed into that strategy.

Host: Paul Barnhurst:: So you mentioned one can make a bigger difference. You feel more involved than sometimes the big, huge companies. If anyone's worked in one, sometimes you feel a little bit like a cog or can't see how everything relates. So I'm curious, can you share an example where you felt like your work made a big difference in the mid-market, where you've seen that direct impact of what you were doing?

Guest: Ken Lane:: Sure. One of the companies I've worked for, they've acquired other companies over time. They had this nice small portfolio of companies that were doing very well. Somebody in their field became available. So what I was able to do then was forecast out all their portfolio of companies, do the FP&A, and do the forecast for the next so many years. Then with that work, were able to get them preferential financing from the banks to acquire that company that they later acquired and has been growing since.

Host: Paul Barnhurst:: Thanks. I appreciate you sharing that. It sounds like that's one opportunity that you're proud of and made a big difference. So that's always fun to have. Speaking of making a big difference, do you feel like it's hurt you in any way that you've worked for so many different industries, or do you think it helps you when you go to a different industry, having worked in several I think you've worked manufacturing, automotive, cannabis, commercial property, and I know different areas within manufacturing. So maybe talk a little bit about that.

Guest: Ken Lane:: It's a two-edged sword. It can help you. It can hurt you. For me, it helped me. One of the reasons is accounting is different based on what company or industry that you're in. So I've worked with people that is like, oh I spent four years getting an accounting degree. I got my CPA and I realized I hate accounting. you go, do you hate accounting or do you hate the field that you're in because you're not relating to what you're doing, what you're working on, the business that you're in, it doesn't speak to you. So I've tried a variety of different industries to see where I enjoy my fit. I always tend to come back to manufacturing, and that's where I am now. I enjoy it. I enjoy a company that manufactures something to go out. They tend to be complex. you have a lot of inventory, a lot of a lot of things to work on, a lot of different. You're working with sales across a variety of spectrum. Spectrums. So I ended up finding that manufacturing is the niche I like working in, but going across those industries allowed me to figure that out.

Host: Paul Barnhurst:: And what is it about manufacturing that you enjoy? What is it that makes that fun compared to other industries?

Guest: Ken Lane:: For me, it's the complexity of it, especially since post-COVID, the complexity of the supply chain just in time, other than maybe the Ford, GM, and Chrysler's the world. It doesn't exist anymore. You still have supply chain problems. You're still having problems bringing stuff in from China. You have to look at the macro environment as well. There are a lot of things that come into China in all of North America. What happens with the relationships between the government and all these things? You have to take into your forecast and that and go, what if scenarios and things like that. So for me manufacturing, there's just so many moving parts versus let's say, a service business that I just enjoy seeing all those different things come together and able to deliver a product to the market that the market wants.

Host: Paul Barnhurst:: Got it. That makes a lot of sense. What are the maybe the key metrics you like to look at in a manufacturing industry? What are those maybe those key operational metrics that you feel help you have a good understanding of is the business doing well or is it struggling or hey, there's a sign something may be going wrong?

Guest: Ken Lane:: Yes. The big thing for manufacturing is your cash conversion, making sure that you're turning that inventory over on a regular basis to bring the cash in for your operating cash flow. It's easy right now. I'm finding this with businesses right now, what they're doing is in order to make sure that they have a safety stock to get things out because the just-in-time isn't there anymore. They're holding more and more inventory, which is tying up dollars. But then you're watching that bank account drop, drop, drop because you got more going out than coming in. So it's watching that turnover ratio, as well as working closely with the supply chain to make sure that you have what you need, that you can get what you need, but you're not harming the business cash wise.

Host: Paul Barnhurst:: So it sounds like you're still dealing with a lot of supply chain issues. So companies are holding on to longer supply and inventory. So you got to manage that because that's cash, which isn't surprising. I mean at the end of the day, doesn't matter how profitable you are, if you have no cash in the bank, you have a problem. Makes a lot of sense there. How did you transition from accounting to more of an FP&A role, and how did that come about?

Guest: Ken Lane:: So for me, right from the beginning of my career, I guess I have a different, slightly different, different definition of accounting. To me, FP&A is a subset of accounting. Accounting is the overarching umbrella all the way from the bookkeeping, which is all the recordings and now most certified bookkeepers will take you right to the financials and then your FP&A. So every corporation I've been part of, we've had to whether I've had the title of cost analyst, you have to understand your business. You have to understand the cost and the drivers. You have to understand your sales, and what the variances are. Is it a mix, a pricing, and what is going on? So it's always been part of my role from day one. It's never been just recording. It's always been part of it.

Host: Paul Barnhurst:: And I think that makes a lot of sense being in smaller mid-market companies to have that because I've seen some of the bigger companies I work in where some people's roles are just recording and I've been in an FP&A role. I've done some accounting, not a lot, but I booked some journal entries here and there and helped with all those things. So I get it. There's some overlap between the two. Interesting perspective. I don't think I've ever thought of FP&A, including accounting. I've generally thought of them differently, so I appreciate you sharing a different perspective there. It's always good to see how people think about it. Any advice you'd offer for someone who they've been in just heavy accounting roles, and wants to make that change to FP&A. How do you think they go about that?

Guest: Ken Lane:: A couple of ways. The first way is understanding your business. So again, what are the drivers in your business to do FP&A? I think to do very well at FP&A, you have to understand everything on the accounting side, especially the cost drivers and things that are driving those bottom numbers. you have to understand your purchasing department, what is cost avoidance versus cost savings, and things like this. So get to know all the different individual areas of the company, and how they impact the company, so that you can start thinking, how does this work as a whole? And I think that's what you need to do because when you're in sometimes just in an accounting role, you're looking at one small section versus looking at the broader picture. So you need to understand that broader picture. I think when you're looking to move over when you get interviewed, you can start expressing, hey, this is how the broader picture is impacting you. I see that I can help you there.

Host: Paul Barnhurst:: Got it. I would agree with that. Starting to understand the broader picture of the business is one of the most important things you have to do. I want to switch gears here a little bit. I know when you and I chatted,As we talked quite a bit about technology, and you mentioned how SMBs and mid-markets, from your perspective, will need to invest more in tech going forward. Why is that?

Guest: Ken Lane:: As I alluded to before, a lot of these companies have multiple legacy systems. A lot of SMBs will...