Intro

In this thought-provoking discussion, Malcolm and Simone Collins explore the emerging "New Right" or "Silicon Valley Right" coalition within the Republican party. They delve into how this group, which includes tech entrepreneurs and venture capitalists, is reshaping conservative politics and policy positions.

Key topics covered:

* The shift from "GOP Inc." to a new conservative faction

* Trump's alignment with the New Right and distancing from traditional social conservatives

* The evolving stance on issues like abortion and same-sex marriage within the Republican party

* The clash between old guard "Christian socialist" conservatives and the new tech-savvy right

* How demographic changes and generational shifts are influencing conservative politics

* The impact of this realignment on the future of the Republican party

[00:00:00]

Malcolm Collins: Hello, Simone, I am excited to be here with you today. Some days I just have like this breakthrough in my perception of reality that changes everything for me in a way. Like I wish people are like, why can't you only record the good, you know, the good episodes, like do it once a week, but they're like really good.

And I'm like, that's like not how my brain works. I know you're freezing, but occasionally I'll have an idea and I'll be like, Oh wow, this is earth shattering for me. And I wish I could make like a better, a premium but this is definitely going to go in the best episodes category because. I think I now understand something that was really difficult for me to understand before.

And it gives me a better vision of what the Republican party is and where it's going. I'm so intrigued.

Would you like to know more?

Malcolm Collins: So, the thing that I didn't understand Is, I saw this at NatCon, but I've seen this more broadly. When I talk to conservatives that are in the old [00:01:00] conservative intellectual elite, these are the conservatives from the pre Trump era sort of staffers, intellectual elite, when I say intellectual elite, I mean the type of people who are at the think tanks, the type of people who are being paid.

Yeah, like career conservatives. They often come off to me as incredibly socialist, bordering on Marxist. And like Lyman Stone's a great example of this. He is a hardcore socialist. And I just didn't understand it. I didn't understand why they identified it with conservatism.

Now they're Christian socialists. And so I could kind of get that. I was like, well, maybe it's that because they're Christian, they don't feel that there'll be accepted in the progressive circle, so they just try to push their socialism in conservative circles. But generally speaking, I didn't get it.

I didn't get where this was coming from. And I also feel like my understanding of the conservative party transition was the introduction of Trump in post Trump has been, [00:02:00] Diluted, or like, not as good as I would like it to be. It has felt very, like, eh, like, I kinda get it, and I can put together, like, long explanations.

about what it is. But a really tight explanation that made it easy for me to understand like how the policy positions flipped in the way that they flipped. No, I was not capable of doing that.

So. I had this realization to me and I was like, oh my God, everything makes sense. So we're going to go over it.

But it is in understanding the conservative party and the waves of the conservative party. So first you had what I'm going to call GOP Inc. This is the pre Trump conservative coalition. This coalition used disgust based morality, as we've talked about in other episodes, to motivate its base. Like, ew, like that would be an ew thing.

But like, who actually made up its elite class, its philosophical class, and the class that it used to staff administrations? [00:03:00] It was an alliance of two interests. One interest group was These are people who had a strong religious framework for reality and believe that's, that should be represented in the government and should be legalized.

Like morality should be legislated. And the second IE people should be the, like the laws should be designed to force people to act more in line with their religious frameworks.

Simone Collins: Right.

Malcolm Collins: In the second framework in this team up was big business. And intergenerational wells. Now people today, if you're like gin alpha or Gen Z, you'll be like wait.

The people who ran large companies, people thought they were conservative. Historically, they didn't think they were the people staffing the white house. They were the core in like the Bush era in the 90s. This was a, like a Mr. Burns type characters. That was like, obviously Mr. Burns was a conservative and not a far progressive.

[00:04:00] But now it's

Simone Collins: inconceivable to think of an organ of a corporation, not being. At least trying to look woke

Malcolm Collins: ultra woke.

Actually here, I'm reminded a lot of a character like Jack Donaghy from 30 rock. The Jack Donaghy character in the modern world would just 100% be a progressive woke person. But in the time period, when 30 rock was filmed, it made sense to film him as a very conservative person, because he was a big business stooge. If you, It and just, you know, imagine like this.

So you go in the nineties, if you went to a company like a McKinsey or something like that. The default assumption would be, you know, you are a Bush supporter. If you go to McKinsey today. Cause I have a lot of friends who work at companies like Mackenzie. And Bain and everything like that. These companies. Wouldn't even hire someone like me.

Like I would be barred from being hired because I am publicly conservative.

That is how much things have flipped. Also this reflection. Helps me realize how perfect an avatar. I have [00:05:00] this old institution, Mitt Romney was the perfect big business. Plus theocrat candidate. And he couldn't win. And that's why the transition to a new system was necessary.

Malcolm Collins: Oh, well, it is also true for like the billionaires that were made in that generation. You know, you look at your Mark Zuckerberg's, you look at your Bill Gates or like really any of them.

They all are very much and a lot of the old money families went that way. I, there's this conference that you can go to, it's called a Nexus, which I'd been invited to, you know, cause my family is. love intergenerational wealth. I didn't get any of it, by the way. I was kicked out, but they did have it, which gives me invites to these sorts of things.

Or

I, PI,

Simone Collins: Institute of private investors, I think.

Malcolm Collins: But anyway, lots of intergenerational wealth at both of these, and they are the first furthest left things you could possibly imagine.

Simone Collins: Oh yeah.

Malcolm Collins: No better way to get a communist these days than be a billionaire's kid. And

Simone Collins: the Institute for Private

Malcolm Collins: Investors.

So, so I've been to these and this is a change. This didn't used to be the case. You know, it used to be that these [00:06:00] were pocket conservative factions. But they left the business owners and they left before trump came around. By the time trump hit the stage These people had left the coalition and the coalition was desperately signaling to try to keep them on board But they were mostly gone at that point and during that era while the Intergenerational wealth was conservative and the heads of companies, you know, your Jack Donaghy's, right?

Like he was a character that represented this were ultra conservative. Your entrepreneurs and your techies were you know, people who had made their wealth off of their brains, like your first generation brain wealth, right? These people were actually very progressive. You know, this is your, you know, your Steve jobs and stuff like that at that period, right?

Like it's super, super progressive. Then as half of this coalition left, the coalition became somewhat unviable, and the base of the coalition began to get angry. And then a new demographic, a new voter demographic came to exist. [00:07:00] This is the demographic that Trump appealed to. And I would say this is the, angry disenfranchised. So essentially the conservative party went from a big business old money alliance with theocrats to a angry disenfranchised Americans who are just angry at the way the system is working and do not believe that it cares about them at all.

Now this created a huge problem for Trump in his first administration. If you're trying to staff your administration with people who are disenfranchised well, often they're disenfranchised for a reason and they're really thinking with their emotions. It's not that everyone is, but in the early Trump era, that was to an extent the case.

And it made it very hard to build like a cohesive, Working institution. You need some group of like a large pool of competent, hardworking individuals who are okay with working at least adjacent to bureaucracies to staff something like this. Well, these individuals didn't exist in this early era of Trump.[00:08:00]

And then. Something queer happened. A new conservative faction began to arise. So if this is the faction that is called in media often the new right, or that we in previous episodes have called the techno Republicans, either individuals like Elon, Peter Thiel, Clemasse, Vivek, David Sachs, Mark Andreessen.

And JD Vance these individuals typically hated Trump when he first came to power. And then as we've talked about in other episodes some people like JD Vance, but also many other thinkers, they began to bridge the gap with this community. So this community had begun to move against the progressives for two reasons.

They saw that progressivism was beginning to become a Nazi cult, as we pointed out before, you know, they value human dignity based on a person's ethnic group with Jews at the bottom. And when they were like, no, they don't, you know, they literally so, so if you look at the the [00:09:00] National Academy of Sciences, engineering and medicine recommended prioritizing racial minorities for COVID vaccines, they sought safe lives and ACIP of the CDC indicated that it went with this framework when it was deciding, so they were literally not based on a person's medical needs, but based on a person's race, they believe some races were more deserving of human dignity than other races.

And you look in there like, Oh, we don't. hate Jews. It's just a Zionist. And then I, you know, you point it to a video of a Jewish person, not a Zionist walking on a college campus and being randomly attacked by a group of progressives. Like, no, you can say you don't feel that way, but that's what's become the mainstream of your party.

And then you can look at the, You know, castration of children that's become more and more rampant and they're like, Oh, we're doing this to save trans kids, but we know from the 2024 study development of gender non consensus during adolescent and early adulthood that so this is a 2024 really good longitudinal paper.

Over nine and 10, 11 year olds who feel [00:10:00] discontent with their gender and aren't given the social transition stuff. They end up growing up to be a 23-year-old who is 100% convi, you know, comfortable with their gender, but they're either just gay or autistic. Right. And just

Simone Collins: sterilizing a portion of autistic and, well, it's not

Malcolm Collins: abortion, it's nine gay and autistic kids for everyone, trans kid, like it is insane.

And a lot of these. You know, pull yourself up by your bootstraps people then realized and you know, this was a message made clear by people like JD Vance's and one of our Appalachian viewers sent this to us. They said Vance is urging the tech elite side to side with what he said first, he said that the tech elite sided with.

the liberal elite or the big business owners. Cause they were both elite historically, but I don't actually think these two groups are really ever on the same side for that long. In the era of ,

GOP Inc.

Malcolm Collins: the tech elite were always on the progressive side and the the other faction, the big business and blue bloods, they were always on the conservative [00:11:00] side.

So they're just reorienting things in the way that they naturally reoriented. And it was, you know, Vance is urging the tech elites to side with rural Appalachia because rural Appalachia is scrappy and entrepreneurial. We have a quote unquote, pull yourself up by your boots mentality, the tech entrepreneurs like, and that is true.

They actually found a great deal of personal synergy. And as the. Progressive group began to become more religious, i. e. just believe these things. It doesn't matter what the data says. It doesn't matter what's obvious and real to you. I mean, so you had this switch and this was the core switch that happened.

during the Trump era, or this happened recently is in the nineties, it was big business intergenerational wealth conservative tech entrepreneurs progressive. Now it's tech entrepreneurs conservative intergenerational wealth and big money or big business is Progressive. And so this, which then explains to me also why GOP Inc's remnants are so damn communist.

Because I [00:12:00] did not understand this to begin with. GOP Inc historically had to appease the big business interests. It had to appease, it was an alliance between theocrats and big business and intergenerational wealth. They had to, you know, go for this more capitalistic like approach. When all of that left, they no longer needed to appease that faction, and that faction left all of their you know, Yeah, intellectual circles, everything like that.

And as such, they began to think, and also they were not the old Calvinists of old, right? Like, this is mostly like a Catholic group these days. Yeah, and there's

Simone Collins: nothing inherently capitalistic about Catholicism or being a Baptist or being, You know, an evangelical Christian of like any typical American sort.

Right. So.

Malcolm Collins: Yeah. Well, it's something that the wokes actually used to chastise them for. Why aren't you feeding the poor? If that's what your Jesus guy was all about, why aren't you helping the disenfranchised? And they've moved to a, [00:13:00] actually, this is what we need to do mindset. But then there's the other filtering mechanism that pushed them into this position.

The secondary filtering mechanism that pushed them into this position is these are individuals who have spent their entire adult careers working within bureaucracies. Conservatives that don't have a socialist bent to them or a pro bureaucracy bent to them are not going to be able to maintain those positions their entire lives.

Simone Collins: So, yeah, just the ones who survived in the same establishment long enough are going to be inherently bureaucratic.

Malcolm Collins: Absolutely.

Simone Collins: That. Huh. Okay.

Malcolm Collins: And so that's what caused this transformation, but there, there is a secondary thing at play here. Well, first I want to hear your thoughts on this first bit here.

Simone Collins: This makes a lot of sense. It's, it was always confusing to me that, you know, I always saw conservatives as being let markets make a solution, [00:14:00] right? Right. Let business do business. And. You know, less government is good. And then to show up at NatCon this year and hear people there say, Oh no, bureaucracy is good.

I just want it to be more Christian or you know, Well, f**k

Malcolm Collins: the base was one of the things they said, or let's ban pornography or let's, you know, like all these sort of like

Simone Collins: big government good. As long as it's run by us kind of mindsets. Really blew my mind. And this free market approach was gone.

I also thought that cultural sovereignty was universal across all conservatives. You know, basically don't tell me how to live my life. Like I want to practice my religious freedom and therefore. You know, we should all be fighting for that. The fact that conservatives, despite the fact that really all they should be fighting for right now, like they should before getting to be coercive, to impose your [00:15:00] culture on other people, even if that is your ultimate plan, it's so bizarre to me.

That they're not first saying, okay, just let me do my thing instead of forcing me to do your thing. They're just immediately no, you're going to do my thing. Which is also bizarre to me. I would expect them to first try to get to a neutral point before they go to the other extreme. From being forced to forcing.

So, yeah, I didn't understand that. And now that you're showing me how there's factions forming. And, yeah. Also that Trump has chosen a faction that's not GOP, Inc. I'm quite heartened.

Malcolm Collins: Yes. So now I need to read to you because I found this. Fascinating. I decided to bring some questions to AI to see if it's just me who's thinking this. Am I imagining something? Is there really a new faction of conservatism? What do they care about? So I went to Perplexity and I asked, I am trying to name a growing faction of conservatives that includes voices like Elon, Peter Thiel, Chamath and Vivek [00:16:00] Ramaswamy.

Who else would you put in this group? This growing faction of conservatives you're referring to is often called the New Right or the Silicon Valley Right. It includes tech entrepreneurs, venture capitalists, and business leaders who have shifted towards more conservative right wing views. Based on the search results and additional context, here are some key figures that should be considered part of this group.

Elon Musk, Peter Thiel, Chamath, Vivek Ramaswamy, David Sachs, JD Vance. So you notice it unprompted included JD Vance in this group. So it's not just me who's saying JD is in this group. It's a, I prime an AI was this. And it's like, yeah, he's part of this new, right. And Marc Andreessen. This group has a few common traits and then it goes into like their you know, Silicon Valley background and everything like that.

But then I thought something else was really interesting. So I did a follow up where I said, what are common policy positions? They push. And it said, because I thought this was an interesting summary. The new right or Silicon Valley right, which includes figures like Elon Musk, Peter [00:17:00] Thiel, Chamath Palsa, and Vivek Ramaswamy shares several common policy positions.

These include economic libertarianism. They advocate for free market principles, reduced government intervention in the economy and deregulation. Well, yeah. With the neoliberal act, this is what I thought conservatism

Simone Collins: was. That's just so

Malcolm Collins: weird. Which emphasizes individual freedom and responsibility, and minimum state intervention and economic affairs.

Cultural conservatism, this group often holds socially conservative views, including a commitment to traditional values and public morality. They tend to oppose progressive cultural movements and emphasize the importance of maintaining cultural. norms and traditions, skepticism of elite institutions.

There is a strong distrust of established elites and mainstream institutions such as media, academia, and government agencies. The skepticism is rooted in the belief that these institutions are dominated by leftist ideologies that seek to undermine conservative values and policies. So, so far you're like, Oh, this is like a hundred percent us.

Native or sorry, nationalism and populism. populism. They often support nationalist policies that [00:18:00] prioritize the interests of their own country over globalist agendas. They, this includes a focus on America First policies and a resistance to international agreements that they perceive to undermine national sovereignty.

Free speech and anti censorship. A significant policy position is a defense of free speech and opposition to what they see as censorship by tech platforms and other institutions. They argue that current policies disproportionately silence conservative voices. A critique of woke culture. They are vocal critics of woke culture and identity politics, which they believe stifles free expression and promotes division.

This includes opposition to affirmative action and other policies they view as promoting social justice at the expense of a meritocracy. Exactly us,

Simone Collins: I would say it's us, except for when it comes to social policy, I would say that we take a much more free market or libertarian approach to social policy, which isn't to say that we don't know all over and criticize certain social approaches, but we take it more from a liberal approach.

Well, they suck and [00:19:00] they're going to disappear. Like they're going to fail.

Malcolm Collins: We've talked about creating government departments that fund episodes of shows like they did in the seventies about like anti drug shows that are like cornet films that like, you know, show large, So no, we're totally in that.

We promote the idea of the government intervening in companies that own the medium of communication in the same way. The United States government used to nationalize things like the postal service and create really heavy regulations around things like telephone lines, and yet we don't have that around things like the companies like YouTube, for example, that might censor what you and I are saying to each other.

I agree

Simone Collins: with you on that. Where I would draw the line with our policy. So is coercive tactics like saying this is

Malcolm Collins: it's saying that this group doesn't do that. So it's not relevant

Simone Collins: anyway. So next, I don't know. I mean, where I will like,

Malcolm Collins: you know, JD Vance is JD Vance is really on the edge of this group.

He's got a foot in both communities. But he speaks to this group and he is adjacent to this group, but I wouldn't call him an avatar of this group. If you're looking for an avatar of this [00:20:00] group, you're looking for someone like Elon Musk. Yeah. And the same way that Peter Thiel built his political opinion sort of before this group existed, and he's also been an influence in JD Vance, which has influenced him with a lot of mysticism which is why people like James Lindsay freaked out when JD Vance was admitted.

'cause he sees a lot of JD Vance's mysticism that came from some of the influencers of Peter Thiel and we'll likely do a different episode of that. I'm not as worried about that. You know, I think that, and this is a fresh take that you're gonna hear to hear. While I support Trump and JD Vance, I do believe that God gives man signs.

And when I see a group of people walking around in red hats that say witch on them, I'm like, eventually these people are going to be our enemies. And we need to take that into consideration. For people who do not know MAGA is a. Is the feminine version of Mago, you know, when you read the Bible, like Simon of Magos, i.

e. Simon, the sorcerer it means a female searcher, sorcerer, i. e. a witch. The Bible tells us do not, it tells us to [00:21:00] be wary of witches. And so when a group of people come to, I just think that God makes these things obvious. It's weird. How freaking obvious as sometimes that God makes his will and I think that this is one of those instances where we just haven't had to deal with it yet.

Right now they are on our side, but God has told us to not overcast our chips. Okay. What? You disagree or you feel uncomfortable with the fact that there is a group of, that's a weird thing, right? That's gotta be weird to you. It's red hats that say which on them.

Simone Collins: Make America great

Malcolm Collins: again.

That's a weird phrase. It's a weird, it's weird that they shortened it and it's weird that it says which

Simone Collins: not really, maybe I'm on, I'm too autistic to get it. You're a schizoid enough to get it. You know what I mean? I'm

Malcolm Collins: schizoid enough to be, you're like, yeah, it's a group of people who wear red hats that say, [00:22:00] which.

They don't say

Simone Collins: which they say

Malcolm Collins: MAGA it's which in, in, in Latin, sweetheart, it's loud

Simone Collins: define MAGA Google type in what does MAGA

Malcolm Collins: mean in Latin, the language of the church.

Simone Collins: Okay, Latin. Fine. Because, yeah, because everyone's still doing mass in Latin.

I'm not

Malcolm Collins: choosing some obscure language here, Simone.

Simone Collins: Wizard, sorcerer, poisoner, poisonous, magical, magus, noun, adjective.

Malcolm Collins: I'm just saying, it's not like I'm choosing, like, Schizo or something Latin. The language of the church. Sorry I just gotta be like anyway, so I'll go further here. What does it say after that? It says that they use the use of government to counter leftist influence. , unlike class. The liberals who believe in limiting government power, the new right advocates for using government power strategically to counteract what they see as overreach of the left and cultural institutions and spheres.

These positions reflect a blend [00:23:00] of economic liberalism and cultural conservatism, aiming to reshape the political landscape by challenging both traditional conservative and liberal paradigm. And I looked at this and I was like, wow, this is a weird coalition of political beliefs that I thought you and I had come up with on our own.

But it's like, no, like this is, or not come up with on our own. But like, I thought that our political position was more unique than I think it really is. I think it's a reflection of a mainstream and growing faction of the conservative party and one that has to an extent just been knighted by Trump. I'm wondering your thoughts on this.

Simone Collins: Yeah, I think it's a good side, a good sign that we're converging on something similar because it implies that it is a natural and logical reaction to where we are as a society, economy and government. It's a good thing. It's a good sign. And I'm glad to know that we're not alone. But I'm also disturbed to know that this wasn't the norm, because I [00:24:00] have that same bias that most people do, which is, you assume that if someone is nice and reasonable, and they seem intelligent, that they hold the same views as you.

And going to NatCon and seeing that, Oh, actually the establishment of Republicans, which are nice, wonderful, smart people that I like. If so, of course I assume that they're going to, they're going to hold out the same stances as we are, really don't. And they're part of this old faction, which is largely socialist, which is quite socially coercive.

You know, that wants to ban porn that wants to do all the, I mean, they also want to do some other things like in Project 2025. Led by the Heritage Foundation, which is definitely of the old guard. But seems curious about the new guard. So that's good. Looks like it could update.

Malcolm Collins: Yeah.

Simone Collins: Yeah. It looks like it could update.

But you know, like there are some things that seem more in line with new stuff, you know, like sort of breaking out a lot of ossified bureaucracy seems to be a part of it. But then also these, you know, more coercive or very conservative, socially conservative tactics. I don't know.

Malcolm Collins: I mean, Trump has been very clear about where [00:25:00] he stands on this.

So, you know, if you look at like, how do you merge these two groups? Because there are IE the tech entrepreneur group and the You know, angry disenfranchised group, right? Because there are a few areas where they're going to chafe with each other, right? And Trump has done it. So for example, then new Republicans are generally pro gay people being able to live their lives.

Huh? They're even pro adult trans people, but they are very antagonistic. For example, as JD has two programs that try to transition children or that try to convince or really brainwash children into this weird gender ideology cult thing that we've talked about in other episodes. And the, where I say that, you know, like.

A cult basically grew under trans ideology. And I think that most of the new Republicans realize that, and they're very scared by that.

Is the holy guide to living pure, this will help explain. First, [00:26:00] Laughter. Her name's Lorraine, too? We're all Lorraine, and you will be Todd. A name chosen especially for you oh. You're not

An oppressed minority. you're a cult!

Excuse me, are y'all with the cult? We're not a cult. We're an organization that promotes love and Yeah, this is it

Malcolm Collins: So, so I want to read something from Richard Hanania. He tweeted this. So he said, Trump personally dictated the new RNC language on abortion and gay marriage, which are, I think, the two issues.

where these two groups need to be able to synergize, i. e. the tech elite are okay with being more restrictive on these things. And the disenfranchised Americans often want to go on absolute positions towards these things, or there's a small faction of them that does that is really loud. Actually I wouldn't even say, the rural disenfranchised group doesn't care about these things.

The group that cares about these things is GOP Inc. And Trump is trying to keep enough of GOP Inc., was basically telling them [00:27:00] to f**k off. He

Simone Collins: has to. I mean, it's still a significant contingent.

Malcolm Collins: Well, it's a significant contingent of funding. But it's not, you know, as voters, it's not the future of the party.

No. And so what is Trump doing here? So I'll read what Richard Hanania said. Trump personally dictated the new RNC language on abortion and gay marriage. His team put the delegates in a room, took their phones, and Trump said, you're going to pass this and you're going to do it quickly. Night of long knives.

For social conservatives is what it was called. And then he showed something from a a paper that had come out on this or an announcement about this. Mr. Trump made clear to his team that he wanted the 2024 platform to be his and his alone. He wanted it to be much shorter and simpler. And in some cases, vaguer.

He was especially focused on the language about abortion, which he recognized as a potentially potent issue against him in a general election. He actually wanted. Nothing in the platform that would give Democrats an opening to [00:28:00] attack him. And he made clear to his aides that he was perfectly fine with bucking social conservatives for whom he had delivered a tremendous victory by reshaping the Supreme court was a conservative supermajority fair um, Mr.

Trump also. stressed that he did not want to define marriage as between one man and one woman. Instead, the document contains a vague statement open to interpretation. Quote, Republicans will promote a culture that values the sanctity of marriage, end quote. He could not be throwing in harder with the new Republicans and against GOP Inc if he tried.

These are issues that don't matter to the world disenfranchised that much. Okay. So, so, so he's choosing a side between GOP, Inc and new Republicans. He's saying or, and the new right or tech concert techno conservative, as we call them sometimes. And he's saying it's a new right. That's who I'm with.

And I think it's incredibly true. [00:29:00] But do you have any further thoughts here?

Simone Collins: Well, what does this mean for the longer term future of the party, especially if Trump wins, having made this tone setting decision? Well,

Malcolm Collins: it means that he's sane and he's aware of what the base actually wants. So, According to especially the Young Base according to Pew in 2014, 61 percent of Republicans under 30 favored same sex marriage, while only 35 percent opposed it.

It's an incredibly unpopular opinion. Gallup poll from 2021 showed that 55 percent of Republicans overall, so this is overall, not just young Republicans, favored same sex marriage. Supported same sex marriage. It's a majority opinion in the Republican party. In 2015, 63 percent of Republicans under 30 supported protecting LGBT individuals from discrimination.

So again, the majority, when you're talking about young conservatives are pro that.

And then if you look at Pew, nearly half of Republicans younger than 30 say that abortion should be legal in all most cases. So this is [00:30:00] far to the left of our opinions on abortion 47%. And so this is the next generation.

And then you can say, well, what about like the mainstream conservatives? I can put a graph on screen here. It shows that 64 percent say do not take this life begins at conception mindset. They want to, you know, restrict abortion, but they still want it to be accessible. I think JD Vance's public initial point on this, the 12 week position actually falls in line with what a lot of Europe thinks on this point.

And probably what we'd agree with, I think 12 weeks are pretty good. It's interestingly, It's also around where Islam believe it's an installment happens. And it's not that far from early Catholic thinkers on when installment happens. So I find that pretty interesting. And it also, interestingly, I find this really interestingly is that if you correlate the early Catholic thinkers with what we actually know about the science and we'll get more into like abortion stuff in a different episode it correlates with when the nervous system begins developing.

So I think. that, you know, when the church was still in communion with [00:31:00] God, it understood God's will in regards to this, because that's actually kind of remarkable that they sort of guessed when the nervous system started developing without any knowledge of that. But anyway. That's like our religious.

I'm going to take that aside. But what I'm saying is if you're like, what's the consequence of him outlying himself with this faction, he's outlying himself with factions that represent the base, not factions that represent an out of touch and bureaucratic elite cast that really have nothing to do with the party anymore.

And another point we'll get to in another episode, which I really love to talk to you more, is this deontological religious system that in the nineties people thought was stable. And you had like the quiver full movement and stuff like that. Their kids deconverted at astronomically high rates. It turns out it's just not an intergenerationally stable system.

They were like, we're going to create the generation of Joshua. We'll do a few episodes on this. But what turns out and I think you're seeing this and like, The eight passengers family, for example, right? When you take this deontological moral perspective, it is very bad at intergenerational, like keeping [00:32:00] people and the groups that are doing that are just not relevant to the future.

It is the active theological conversation and in consequentialist moral systems, which seem to be able to actually motivate high fertility, which you see across traditions, whether it's Catholic or Mormon or something like that, you see some factions that are adopting these and maintaining high fertility.

But thoughts.

Simone Collins: That makes sense. And I'm excited for that, but is there a chance that this highly socialist, we'll say Christian socialist faction instead becomes a dominant faction and how would that play

Malcolm Collins: out in population numbers? Not at all. I think that we have a risk from them. Like, so, so the Heritage Foundation where they're like, we'll do Project 2025 and we'll staff the White Fest for you.

Trump, don't worry about it. We'll handle it all. Trump telling them basically to go off was very smart. I like Heritage Foundation people, I think they can update, but this original plan of like banning pornography saying life begins at conception, which basically means IVF gets [00:33:00] banned, you know?

putting kids on a military list. You know, this is not the new Republicans. This is some weird old theocratic holdout. And I think that when I talk to people at the Heritage Foundation, many of them are totally rational, normal people who follow the base. What I'm assuming is there's probably some donors to them.

Or some faction that they think they need to please, or maybe some old people who are still haven't been purged from these organizations. And during the Trump administration, because Trump seems very alive to this, you know, they're going to go through and they're going to clean house so that we can and then begin hiring people like you and me and other thought leaders in the new right to begin to add a.

Perspective that is more representative of both the Republican base, but also the Republican next generation, which is important if we want to keep the party healthy and strong. There, I think there was a plan to try to take over. with a Christian Marxist value [00:34:00] system. And we even saw this was the pronatalist movement.

I mean, Limestone did this. Limestone wrote this like manifesto about how the Collins's aren't true pronatalist because the Collins's aren't socialist. They don't believe because they look at the evidence that social handouts work that cash payments to families work, that the government should have control of how many kids the family should have.

And therefore, They are anti natalist. And it's like, I love that he's like, therefore they're not conservative or they're not the new right. Were two of the words he used. And I was like, we're not conservative because we're not Marxist. But I think that a lot of people like him they do, they have attempted over and over again to try to Wrestle control of movements that, you know, other people have built people like Trump, people like us.

And you just need to be vigilant against them. And frankly, they need to be shamed and kicked a bit. Like, when I think kicked a bit, I think Trump did a good job with the project. 2025 saying, I don't think he needs to throw out this database. I think he should probably use it. I think [00:35:00] he can work with the Heritage Foundation, as long as they understand, don't try to like, take your socialist nonsense, your far left, wokey, ban porn nonsense, and try to insect it into the What is actually the conservative basis desires these days or banning gay marriage or something like that.

Like this is not modern conservatism. Okay. It's not what the base wants. It's not what the new philosophers in the party want. It is and I think that a lot of these groups can learn. I think that they need to. come to accept that their theological traditions are not a majority enough of the American population to do anything other than hurt them.

When you put these extremist positions around when life begins or gay marriage or something like that, even if you believe in them, right? Like, even if you think, Oh, it's good that the government's enforcing people to live this way, which doesn't get anyone else into heaven. So I don't like, even if that, right?

And I really want to [00:36:00] stress this point again. There is no Christian denomination, which believes that you have helped a person's chance of getting into heaven. By adjudicating their morality. If anything you've just removed an opportunity for them to reflect on their own immortality and potentially build a relationship with God. , so you have a hurt them in that regards and you have hurt our society further by preventing Republican candidates from potentially winning. To play this little silly. I don't know what it is.

Status game. It makes no sense.

Malcolm Collins: You are hurting conservatives ability to win because this isn't something most of the conservative base agrees with it's something that galvanizes Democrats to get out there and vote. I think sort of the last gift that that the sort of transitional group, Trump's group gave to these people.

Was this conservative Supreme Court [00:37:00] was the Supreme Court decision on abortion, which I think is just, I do think this should be a state's rights issue. And now we need to move on with what conservatives actually think instead of what these small pockets of extremists think that conservatives should think if they weren't so stupid, is basically what they think.

I mean, that's what we got from the conference is a lot of these people just think that the base is stupid because if they look at. This disenfranchised angry group of voters in the same way that the leftist bureaucrats do. They're like, just sit back, relax, and let the bureaucrats make all the decisions.

Simone Collins: This gives me hope, Malcolm. And it makes a lot of sense. It helps to explain a bunch of things that really confused me about what are conservatives now? But it's exciting to see things moving in an interesting direction. It's just kind of crazy. Also how capitalism is kind of going full circle.

I see the cycle there of, you know, originally one could say like productive world changing companies were conservatives. And began to [00:38:00] falter. And now once again, sort of productive world changing companies are conservative. So just different from a new wave of capitalism, a new wave of business formation.

So that's also interesting.

Malcolm Collins: Well, that's actually really interesting. I think both theocratically and in terms of business, the conservative circles are the ones where intellectually lively discussions are happening.

Simone Collins: Right. Yeah. Where generation is happening. I feel like conservatism feels more generative to me.

Whereas progressivism feels more degenerative to me rot excess and rot or decline. Whereas conservatism is more the belt tightening, the discipline and then the growth, the new growth.

Malcolm Collins: Well, it's austerity and discipline, I think are two of the conservative values. That you're just not going to get in these progressive circles.

And I think vitalism is becoming a key conservative value instead of you know, the old conservative party that we would argue is, was motivated by like, ick, like against gay because gay, ick, you know? And then we learned that's a stupid way to build morality. Like that's what Mother [00:39:00] Teresa basically taught the world.

Like, yeah just because somebody initiates a disgust reaction in you, like a leopard, doesn't mean you shouldn't hug them and show them love. Like that's a pre evolved thing that was meant to keep you, Healthy and safe and sure you have offspring, but that doesn't mean it's a good sign of actual morality.

Simone Collins: Yeah, a lot of our listeners disagree on that. They're like no Disgust good.

Malcolm Collins: Yeah, when I see a deformed person and I feel disgust that's a wonderful thing that's god telling me that they must have sinned was this like Well, you know

Simone Collins: on average in the past, people before Germ theory and whatnot benefited from being afraid of people who had visible problems, open wounds, deformities, et cetera, because it could be associated with the

Malcolm Collins: world system evolved.

But you know, We also, you know, if you go to early Christianity, like what's happening, you know, in the tabernacle, you know, when they're escaping Israel and they're ripping apart birds and throwing blood all over their worship area, like our religion [00:40:00] evolves. Okay. And we need to, and I think that's commanded of us by God is to continue to, and even Catholicism, their view that life begins at conception, evolve.

That's only about. I think 200 years old was a Pius IX. That's not what, you know, Thomas Aquinas thought. That's not what Augustus of Hippo thought. That's a new belief. And that's okay. We evolve and we evolve again until we get closer to what God wants us to believe. That's

Simone Collins: what techno puritanism is all

Malcolm Collins: about.

Right, my friend. Oh yeah. I love you, Simone. You are an. Absolute star. What are we having tonight? I mean, we're gonna people hated us for our last night's food. They were like, Oh, this is not what a carnivore eats. You know, you're

Simone Collins: having teriyaki beef with stir fried

Malcolm Collins: rice. I'm very excited for that. I've actually been saving up for that today because I'm really looking forward to that.

Yeah. They were like, what about your seed oils? Cause I was having what? Like gyoza last time and like tomato soup. And I don't know, maybe I'm getting my seed oils. [00:41:00] I actually don't care. I don't want to live forever.

Simone Collins: I thought seed oils were out.

Malcolm Collins: I don't know. They're like, look at a rye nationalists.

You know, we've had them on the show, right? He'd tell us that the way we're eating is like terribly unhealthy. And I'm like, I really don't care. Like, I'm not here to live forever. I believe in forever puppy. That's the way we see humanity. People are like, why are you so okay with dying?

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Malcolm Collins: Where it's, do you know what I'm talking about? No, but I can guess. You take it back whenever it gets old and it begins to become boring and sad and [00:42:00] nihilistic.

Simone Collins: And then it becomes

Malcolm Collins: excited again, just like our kids. Oh god, I love you. I love you, too