I just think that we, if we don't talk about ourselves as a work in progress enough and like if we ever give each other the impression that anyone can be fixed and have it sorted once and through them, we're doing great harm. The journey is the point. It's not like, Oh, yeah, done that. And now I know everything, you know, I don't even want to get it sorted. Can you imagine how boring it would be if you had it sorted? We carry on's kind of cycling through change. Every time we cut it's a spiral rather than a circle. So we move up a little bit maybe... But it's never going to start

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