Vinnie: I came to Germany in 1982 and experienced both problematic straightforward anti-Semitism but also the absolute weirdness and unpleasantness of philosemmatism. He left Berlin at the end of 1988 having had his first child here thinking I did not want to bring up a child in that kind of weird environment totally agreed. Vinnie: If we're only talking about before 2020 then I think we actually probably do agree on something else Yasha so this is Vinnie.