How do you verify what challenges people have? You might have your own ideas about I think that other people are struggling with X or Y or Z. So the four quadrants expertise, a solution to a challenge. What are people spending money on and what brings you joy? Yes. And then also getting really clear on if they haven't spent money, what are the concepts and consequences? What has it cost them? Just have them talk about it to see if they really understand.

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