Theater of Agile and common misapplications

Luke O’Mahoney, Founder & Creator of Sapienˣ, joined The Modern People Leader.

We talked about the three emerging models of product-led HR, Agile theater, and how an enterprise company phased its shift to product-led HR.

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(06:23) Luke’s early career in RPO and connecting talent acquisition to business strategy

(07:15) Transition into People Leadership and discovering Agile HR

(08:48) Applying product and marketing frameworks to people and culture

(09:54) Discovering a community around “PeopleOps as a Product” and founding SapientX

(10:46) Stephen reflects on HR’s evolution from Ulrich’s model to Agile

(12:37) Luke on why this iteration of Agile HR is sticking

(13:18) How being “unburdened by legacy HR” enabled innovation

(15:16) The shift from a procurement mindset to a product mindset in HR

(17:28) The gateway to product-led PX and why accessibility matters

(23:16) Luke explains the 3 models: HR as a Service, Programs as Products, and Work as the Product

(25:43) What “work as the product” means in practice

(26:50) How to determine which model fits your organization

(28:17) Context and readiness: tailoring PX as a product to company culture and maturity

(31:49) Luke defines “theater of Agile” and the danger of rituals without mindset

(34:04) Why HR needs to focus on real problems, not just initiatives

(35:25) Biggest blockers to real product-led transformation in HR

(36:44) HR’s perfectionism problem and the courage to experiment

(40:37) Why progress over perfection is key in PeopleOps innovation

(41:15) Stephen’s cohort experience with Jessica Zwaan’s Built for People

(44:15) Luke’s practical framework: solving employee problems and driving growth

(46:13) Iterative experimentation and measuring impact through baselines

(48:18) The need for playbooks and accessible frameworks

(49:13) Luke’s recommended resources and open-source toolkits

(51:00) Real-world examples: TomTom, Sastrify, and Build a Rocket Boy

(52:42) How TomTom built a People Product Team within a large enterprise

(55:10) Applying product-led HR even as a one-person team

(58:04) Launching HR products creatively—Gamified benefits and internal “fake employee” campaigns

(01:02:26) Why GTM mindset matters in HR launches

(01:03:11) The ROI of joy and excitement in PeopleOps work

(01:03:40) What HR leaders can expect on the other side of PX as a product

(01:04:40) Earning the seat at the table through measurable business impact

(01:06:52) Connecting people, process, and technology for business growth

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Past guests on MPL include Brené Brown, Annie Dean (VP of Team Anywhere, Atlassian), Josh Bersin, Katie Burke (Chief People Officer, Harvey), Liz Fosslien, Helen Russell (Chief People Officer, HubSpot), Dave Scott (Chief People Officer, ADT), Melanie Rossenwasser (Chief People Officer, Dropbox), Crystal Boysen (Chief People Officer, Sprout Social), and many more.