July 1, 2025

Little Ed Koches

Grades and tests get in the way of learning for multiple reasons, but this episode digs deeper to explore how any practices that lead students to focus on how well they’re doing in school — as opposed to what they’re doing — are bad news. Policy makers who trumpet their demands for higher standards, “rigor,” and “raising the bar” may not realize that this focus on achievement makes kids think less about learning because, like a certain bald former mayor of New York City, they’re constantly asking, “How’m I doin’?”

For details about the harmful effects on learning of overemphasizing achievement, please see chapter 2 of The Schools Our Children Deserve (AlfieKohn.org/schools-children-deserve/).

A note from Alfie Kohn:
I made two decisions when I decided to start this podcast. The first was not to accept ads. The second was to avoid putting certain episodes behind a paywall (or offering special content only to those who pay). But this means that I depend on the generosity of everyone who listens to help cover the production costs. So: Can you afford a modest contribution — ideally on a regular basis, since a podcast, after all, is not a one-shot event? If so, I’d be grateful if you’d support the project with whatever amount seems fair to you. (Your generosity will also confirm the thesis of my book The Brighter Side of Human Nature.)
Oh, and if you enjoy the podcast, please tell other people about it. Thanks!