Paul Erlich: What is something that permaculture can do that our current society does not? And what does permaculture lack as a global solution to the upcoming great simplification? Norman Borlaug: I really, I mean, this is self-referential opinion, but I do think it's because of our energy blindness as a culture. We need like you say, these models and pilots and especially getting young people involved, learning the things that you know instead of going and being a mid-level programmer to create video games.

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