Jennifer is the author of Is Shame Necessary? A book that came out last year, right? Yep And we, this came up organically On our discussion of the Dan Kahan paper. The what he actually wanted Or what he was recommending or what is the shaming punishment That's not something that was really fleshed out Your book fleshes out the concept of shame And shame and the function of shame Tell us so, this is perfect RightYeah, first of all I want to ask you How the hell an environmental studies professor Who studies fish made her way to shame? Yeah, I mean a lot of, I'm interested inEnvironmental issues like overfishing and climate change

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